Massdrop Airist R2R DAC Review

[MWeston]

Benchmark just want bigger numbers to advertise, so, like plenty before them, they want to play with output levels to push their signal further away from the relatively fixed (on SOTA gear) residual noise floor.

Amplifier makers have also realized they can also tout bigger numbers if they dispense with, or at least reduce the gain of (and the consequent noise) their front end (VA) stage.

It's just a case of playing hot-potato with the consumer stuck in the middle.

2V was 13 times and 22dB above the standard for consumer gear at the time. It was a marketing number driven figure and was changed at the absolute last second to get better numbers.

Now we seem to have few real preamplifiers out there, so the 150mV sensitivity for full rated output is disappearing and the inroads of the 'pro' level and XLRs are creeping into the home. It's funny, for many decades, the ubiquitous Cannon XLR was seen as defining gear made for the sound reinforcement scene and not of audiophile quality. Just the presence of an XLR immediately turned audiophiles off. In the 90s, they started sticking them on anything and everything- mostly with a degraded performance when compared to the RCAs. Now audiophiles can't bring themselves to lust after products without the silly things. Swings and roundabouts.

So where will it end and, what's next? Until we have a D/A converter that can drive +/-70V into a separate power stage, the games will continue. And we'll need a new connector of course. A safety retractable multipin derivation of the XLR because you don't want a fatal shock from your D/A converter do you?

I get what you are saying but I don't agree with all of it. I should really dig up the article to make sure I am stating their words properly but they make it clear that the higher voltage levels are for connection between devices using a professional level and not the consumer market. Then they go on to say why which is because the lower voltages can't do the signal down to those amazingly low levels of noise. Benchmark really aren't trying to upsell themselves as a marketing ploy. I totally trust that they are just providing information to explain their decisions, which is fine with me if you think it is still snake oil. A difference of opinions is a healthy thing as long as you don't ignore science. This stuff is getting so good now, only the priciest and unobtainable (to most) testing equipment can even back it up with numbers.

I agree with you that good hardware connectors and the like do end up getting abused by the general market with their "See, we used that stuff too so our stuff must be the best too!". I look for things with XLR not to feel it will be better sounding, but because it is a more robust connector with better contact resistance, if kept clean. It's all about paying more attention and looking for reviews of things before jumping in. That's why I am here at this site, for sure.

I also get your exaggeration with the 70V DAC and the truth is that everything has limits. The slew rate on such a voltage would be impractical but someday that might be the best way to go. We've got 120/240V plugs laying all over the place with holes in the wall to get access to it. People who wear electrostatics put 500+ volts into their headphones. You gotta take that risk to get the best sound. Ha ha.

 

[Veri]

Thank your for your detailed review. They stole my production R2R module and didn't make good use of the module because they didn't know the details of the development and probably changed the configuration of the circuit.
I have newly developed new module using delta-sigma modulation that allow any pcm/dsd upsample to DSD1024. After our new model is released, I will send one to you for another testing. Many thanks.

Welcome to ASR, @sosolar that new model sounds quite interesting. We'll be looking forward to it good luck!

 

[Cahudson42]

It might be educational, certainly to me, to actually hear a well -recorded Orchestral track Before and After being 'processed' by this DAC.. (On our own 'transparent' systems..)

I often use Oue's Mussorgsky 'Great Gate of Kiev' for a quick listening test.

Could something like this be done/provided w/o 'violating' copyright? Some good public domain track? Two FLACs side by side?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8065701--ravel-orchestrations

 

[maxxevv]

You'll need an ADC to do that properly and correctly. Not a DAC.

 

[Veri]

It looks like whatever SBAF reviewed as a prototype has changed in production units in any case. See for example FR, if I'm reading this right; 3dB down at 20Khz with prototype, -0.5dB on production unit. I suppose they added that ridiculous attempt at a "filter"...

 

[Mtbf]

The non-linearities in the DAC is also seen as intermodulation distortion among the 32 tone test to resemble music.

Interesting, the 32-tone IMD and the THD+noise vs frequency graphs, both showing besides high levels frequency dependency. So just measuring THD+N at 1kHz isn’t enough.

I wonder Amir, in general, would the number of multitones influence the result of the multitone test? Would the level of the “tall grass” in this case rise if we would go from, for instance, 8 to 16 to 32 to 64 to 128 multitones (if possible)? And if so, how much?

 

[solderdude]

I wonder Amir, in general, would the number of multitones influence the result of the multitone test? Would the level of the “tall grass” in this case rise if we would go from, for instance, 8 to 16 to 32 to 64 to 128 multitones (if possible)? And if so, how much?

Here is a site where you can switch between 10 and 50 multi-tone results.
scroll down to Spectrum of Multitone Distortion vs Level (dBFS) of MUSE AUDIO 4 x TDA1543 NOS DAC Default as Line Out mode
It is a comparable, or perhaps even a better performing DAC.

 

[restorer-john]

I also get your exaggeration with the 70V DAC and the truth is that everything has limits.

It wasn't an exaggeration- a typical 150W/ch@8ohms amplifier will have unloaded DC rails of +/-65-70V, which is 140V peak to peak. If one was to dispense with a front end altogether and drive the power stage directly, the fictitious D/A converter would need to swing that sort of voltage.

It's not such a silly concept. Making the source able to swing a very large amplitude and a separate power stage with unity gain (or thereabouts) to deliver the current. The high voltages are in the D/A converter and the high currents are in a separate chassis and optimized for the job.

 

[Jimster480]

What percentage of people have a basic multimeters to test?

More people than you think, multimeters are a couple of dollars these days.

 

[BDWoody]

Ha ha. I am usually sucked in by average trolling but the one from Lotus seemed less average and more troll-like.

I also had a beer or two before reading and my judgement, and looks, is always better for it!

It's a recurring theme for him...he's 'quoted' me in several threads now.
Yes...turning the beer goggles at myself definitely improves the view!

 

[Thomas savage]

BDWoody for sure, he believes that at the end all DAC hardware will sound and perform the same, he also believes that a $50 USB stick DAC or dongle will sound and perform same as full DAC system from Macintosh.

he calls it 'ignorant confidence' if you find this device not sounding as good as rest of top 10 DAC's tested here. So yes, he will defend this product, but lets hope not.

A quick check of posting history reveals member @Lotus97 has consistently marked out member @BDWoody in a antagonist manor .

Please cease this kind of persistent personal attacks (trolling ) against other members.

If this behaviour continues it will met with sanctions.

thanks

 

[LTig]

I do have more than one one though.

Me too.

 

[renaudrenaud]

So, the real appeal with R2R DAC is distortion? The amount of distortion is the sonic signature? And with well engineered DAC there is no distortion, it means no personality, so not interesting for audiophiles?

 

[LuckyLuke575]

Hard to believe - almost 1000 sold.. $350,000 fleeced from 1000 sheep..

Does make you understand why we have the number of 'fleecing companys' around that we do. More than enough $$ being spent to make it worthwhile...

If I were a bit younger, I could be tempted to start another outfit offering $1000 cables and A/C regenerators - to get the synergistic benefits of both..

The Dark Side - so tempting!

Worth a read of the sales pitch:
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-airist-audio-r-2r-dac

There's so much bullshit on that website (Massdrop) with people buying into hype and fanboy mentalities that aim at pushing products on earnest consumers. I've posted links to ASR more than once in response to so much nonsense that is said on there. It's wrong for them to design, promote and sell such badly performing products. And the write up on the product page is a complete joke. They avoid making straight claims about the product, and instead say 'our goal; we aimed':

 

[bunkbail]

So, the real appeal with R2R DAC is distortion? The amount of distortion is the sonic signature? And with well engineered DAC there is no distortion, it means no personality, so not interesting for audiophiles?

That's how I see it, at least. Purists believe the best way is to go with the most transparent DACs and color them with DSP afterwards.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

Also goes to show that even though it’s terrible compared to the $90 Topping D10, the actual audible differences of most DACs playing music is pretty much non-existent, at least for the Everyman.

Zeos is a total imbecile. I don't expect anything from that guy; I unsubscribed from the YouTube channel months ago.

 

[Killingbeans]

So, the real appeal with R2R DAC is distortion? The amount of distortion is the sonic signature? And with well engineered DAC there is no distortion, it means no personality, so not interesting for audiophiles?

Assuming that the distortion is audible to the audiophile person in question, then yes. Otherwise it's all about being able to brag about the exotic nature of the components in your system

 

[felizecat]

Assuming that the distortion is audible to the audiophile person in question, then yes. Otherwise it's all about being able to brag about the exotic nature of the components in your system

Or rationalize subjective preference.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

Assuming that the distortion is audible to the audiophile person in question, then yes. Otherwise it's all about being able to brag about the exotic nature of the components in your system

It sounds like a typical 'I know more / better than the rest of you' type of guy.

 

[Martin Takamine]

I have this DAC and I like what it adds to my setup. After reading this review I now know it's about the distortion it adds to the output.