Massdrop Airist R2R DAC Review

[Martin Takamine]

Ignorance is bliss but knowing that it is caused by distortion and coloration and still be able to enjoy it, why not? . Measurements may be a necessity for a fine product but look at Radsone ES100 reviewed recently, some don't like it even though it has decent measurements.

My view is bench top testing of electronic modules/components is just one facet of measuring performance. The module must be installed in the system to evaluate the system performance. Just as wind tunnel testing (bench top) an aircraft is just one facet of testing, you still have to put the aircraft in the sky (system) to evaluate performance.
In another lifetime I worked on an aircraft radar system that had an ADC that would pass all bench tests but fail when installed in the aircraft system. The facility that repaired ADCs had to do CCA swaps on the flight line on numerous occasions because bench top testing indicated the ADC was performing to specification but the aircraft radar systems exposed faulty CCAs during system tests.
I did compare the CDP internal DAC, A-S801 internal DAC, Topping D70, and Airist R2R in the same system and I preferred the Airist because it didn't "sound" like the others which were the same to my hearing. The Airist outputs what I would describe as the old graphic EQ smile which works for my music listening.

 

[raif71]

Yes but record players are much, much worse than this DAC and plenty of enthusiasts like them too. It is the way it is.

Yeah, baby... totally tubular

 

[protoss]

@amirm

How come you never mention off the start that these particular chips are R2R chips or custom company chipsets? Explaining that these chips measurements are on purpose "distortionist"?

What I realize for some time now is that all R2R chips measurements are next to being horrible.

Any R2R Company,

Metrum
Denafrips
Totaldac
And any other custom type of chips from companies like schiit product's and others will always measure horribly. But listening to them by ear they are the most musical and enjoyable dacs out there. Warm, relaxing, not detail but smooth etch...

Its next to common sense to me now that measurements of R2R dacs is useless? And its becoming a weird joke? But hearing them its pleasurable?

Like to see a detail reply please?

 

[BDWoody]

@amirm

How come you never mention off the start that these particular chips are R2R chips or custom company chipsets? Explaining that these chips measurements are on purpose "distortionist"?

What I realize for some time now is that all R2R chips measurements are next to being horrible.

Any R2R Company,

Metrum
Denafrips
Totaldac
And any other custom type of chips from companies like schiit product's and others will always measure horribly. But listening to them by ear they are the most musical and enjoyable dacs out there. Warm, relaxing, not detail but smooth etch...

Its next to common sense to me now that measurements of R2R dacs is useless? And its becoming a weird joke? But hearing them its pleasurable?

Like to see a detail reply please?

Maybe when they describe themselves as 'distortionist', and not make claims of any kind of sonic or engineering superiority.

 

[beefkabob]

@amirm
And any other custom type of chips from companies like schiit product's and others will always measure horribly. But listening to them by ear they are the most musical and enjoyable dacs out there. Warm, relaxing, not detail but smooth etch...

Its next to common sense to me now that measurements of R2R dacs is useless? And its becoming a weird joke? But hearing them its pleasurable?

Like to see a detail reply please?

1. Did you find them to be "the most musical and enjoyable dacs out there. Warm, relaxing, not detail but smooth etc" in a double blind test?
2. Do you want to listen to music as it was mastered, or do you want to listen to music as your DAC changes it to sound?

 

[GrimSurfer]

Maybe when they describe themselves as 'distortionist', and not make claims of any kind of sonic or engineering superiority.

Just like public figures being "contortionists" instead of criminals.

Sounds nicer. And that's all audiofools care about anyway.

 

[protoss]

Maybe when they describe themselves as 'distortionist', and not make claims of any kind of sonic or engineering superiority.

Companies of R2R dacs making such statements is just a marketing tactic. And of course it is unfortunate. Because the measurements always never ever meets the mark. They need to market their products differently I guess.

 

[protoss]

1. Did you find them to be "the most musical and enjoyable dacs out there. Warm, relaxing, not detail but smooth etc" in a double blind test?
2. Do you want to listen to music as it was mastered, or do you want to listen to music as your DAC changes it to sound?

Yes.

I heard alot of R2R dacs from the 90s to now. And yes they are mostly warm, lush, smooth and not very detail.

Funny thing is I knew everytime what Dac I want. If I wanted that warm lush sound. I always get a R2R dac. If I want a analytical dac, I get these AKM/Sabre dacs .

Its common sense to me.

 

[protoss]

Just like public figures being "contortionists" instead of criminals.

Sounds nicer. And that's all audiofools care about anyway.

This is such a horrible way to look at audio.

I want to listen to a warm lush sound. I do not want to be a PHD doctor analyzing music to it's very core everyday. Jeez.

 

[GrimSurfer]

This is such a horrible way to look at audio.

I want to listen to a warm lush sound. I do not want to be a PHD doctor analyzing music to it's very core everyday. Jeez.

It's neither horrible nor pretty. The truth makes no such distinctions.

I want accuracy. To get there, everyone needs to do their job really well... from the artist to the electronic engineer. That's what they're paid to do.

 

[BDWoody]

Funny thing is I knew everytime what Dac I want.

Its common sense to me.

What's common sense to me is to get a DAC that does it's job with transparency.

Well, that's funny only in the sense that you are practically guaranteeing you will hear what you expect to hear. Without close level matching (closer than by ear), and blind testing, humans are notoriously horrible at discerning anything with reliable meaning.

I'm glad you like your DAC. I'd rather start with one that gives me the final signal closest to the recording, then go from there if I don't actually want High Fidelity to the original.

For owners of these DAC's, they can never get a clean signal. That's a shame...

 

[GrimSurfer]

For owners of these DAC's, they can never get a clean signal. That's a shame...

So you never hear what the artist and recording engineer intended. Just what a lazy EE figured was "Gud Enuf".

I see no virtue, or beauty, in that.

 

[protoss]

It's neither horrible nor pretty. The truth makes no such distinctions.

I want accuracy. To get there, everyone needs to do their job really well... from the artist to the electronic engineer. That's what they're paid to do.

Yes, I understand. I wrote on top.

If I want that analytical detail sound. Than yes, never get a R2R Dac. Get the AKM/Sabre dacs.

I agree.

But the sound of a great R2R dacs I heard in my life are to die for, for their non-detail but lush sound. And yes, paying for lush,warm smooth musical sound has also a price too. Why not....

 

[protoss]

I'm glad you like your DAC. I'd rather start with one that gives me the final signal closest to the recording, then go from there if I don't actually want High Fidelity to the original...

In my opinion, everyone should own 2 dacs.

1 for analytical
1 for musical

In this crazy world, analyzing music everyday in and out will drive me insane. We got to eventually relax and take it easy...

 

[Tks]

@amirm

How come you never mention off the start that these particular chips are R2R chips or custom company chipsets? Explaining that these chips measurements are on purpose "distortionist"?

What I realize for some time now is that all R2R chips measurements are next to being horrible.

Any R2R Company,

Metrum
Denafrips
Totaldac
And any other custom type of chips from companies like schiit product's and others will always measure horribly. But listening to them by ear they are the most musical and enjoyable dacs out there. Warm, relaxing, not detail but smooth etch...

Its next to common sense to me now that measurements of R2R dacs is useless? And its becoming a weird joke? But hearing them its pleasurable?

Like to see a detail reply please?

Not true that all custom implementations are inherently flawed. Chord (as insane as the guy running the company’s is) makes use of custom solutions that measure well. The only problem is, they aren’t competitive at all in the current climate with respect to price.

Whether due to my ignorance or simply being unfamiliar with the R2R landscape, I will admit this architecture isn’t looking like anything worthy of wasting resources on. But then again, I don’t know much about the architecture aside from the basics and what audiophiles proclaim baselessly about it.

Reminds me of differential implementations in balanced devices VS the way balanced is implemented in the 789 amp for example. If it eliminates ground loop issues, and contributes to the power increase over single-ended, what other reason would I have to care about “truly balanced” if all other sensible audio metrics are state of the art in the performance aspect?

 

[GrimSurfer]

In my opinion, everyone should own 2 dacs.

1 for analytical
1 for musical

In this crazy world, analyzing music everyday in and out will drive me insane. We got to eventually relax and take it easy...

Wouldn't the industry just love this... they could unify their marketing under a common corporate anthem:

 

[nscrivener]

Yes, I understand. I wrote on top.

If I want that analytical detail sound. Than yes, never get a R2R Dac. Get the AKM/Sabre dacs.

I agree.

But the sound of a great R2R dacs I heard in my life are to die for, for their non-detail but lush sound. And yes, paying for lush,warm smooth musical sound has also a price too. Why not....

I call BS on this.
I want cymbals to sound like cymbals. I want to hear the rich harmonics that a saxophone produces. Not distortion products tacked on. Distortion is not relaxing and it is not musical. They take something away from the music, not add something to it.

 

[protoss]

I call BS on this.
I want cymbals to sound like cymbals. I want to hear the rich harmonics that a saxophone produces. Not distortion products tacked on. Distortion is not relaxing and it is not musical. They take something away from the music, not add something to it.

I also call BS on this.

I do not care for accuracy, I do not want to hear ear bleeding sound. I don't care for that. I want that distortion of pleasure. I want a device that adds flavour to the music.

What you going to say now??

Whatever you will say. I wrote my answer on top.

 

[Mnyb]

I did compare the CDP internal DAC, A-S801 internal DAC, Topping D70, and Airist R2R in the same system and I preferred the Airist because it didn't "sound" like the others which were the same to my hearing. The Airist outputs what I would describe as the old graphic EQ smile which works for my music listening.

If the others sounded “the same” they could have been transparent and correct it’s the expected result when comparing competently designed DAC’s they have no sound your hear the source material.

In the case of small signal electronics like DAC preamp etc lab circumstances and application is very similar a benign mostly resistive load .

 

[GrimSurfer]

I also call BS on this.

I do not care for accuracy, I do not want to hear ear bleeding sound. I don't care for that. I want that distortion of pleasure. I want a device that adds flavour to the music.

If you don't care about accuracy, you can subscribe to Weird Al Yankovic and enjoy all of the hits.