Step Up Transformers? Pros / Cons?

[watchnerd]

It makes sense when there are 1300+ vinyl records in your listening room.

But I agree that it does not make much sense to start with vinyl when you have no records at all. OTOH just today I spoke with a young man who hat bought a used TT because he hoped that vinyl is not so much overcompressed like digital.

I had no records in 2011 when I bought my first TT.

Now I have about ~400.

 

[Soniclife]

OTOH just today I spoke with a young man who hat bought a used TT because he hoped that vinyl is not so much overcompressed like digital.

Makes you think that brick walled loudness war mastering is actually a clever conspiracy to get everyone back to buying physical media because it's harder to rip and share.

 

[maty]

I wouldn't bother with a SUT if I were you...

I agree.

If you need it, there is something wrong with your system. In any case, do not spend a lot on it.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I agree.

If you need it, there is something wrong with your system. In any case, do not spend a lot on it.

I did use a SUT with other amplifiers for adequate gain with my Ortofon cartridges but I don't think it is worth it with a Devialet IME since it has gain adjustment.

 

[levimax]

A SUT is an excellent option if you want to use a MC cart with a MM phono stage. Converting the high current low voltage signal from an MC cart to higher voltage is a text book application for a transformer. You get extremely low noise, low distortion, and high common mode rejection in addition to impedance matching. With only a few parts and no power required SUT are almost perfectly reliable, stable and flexible. The only disadvantages are size and cost. IMO looking for "magic sound" from a SUT is not the point but for their intended purpose they are almost perfect.

 

[watchnerd]

I would direct you to K&K Audio. You can get a good Luhndahl-based box from Kevin. His prices are more than fair for these. There are two selectable gain settings on most of the implementations, so you can accommodate the output of most MC cartridges. There are also two sockets into which you can insert impedance matching resistors. You don't really need to solder them in, so you can experiment with what they sound like easily. Kevin has data sheets for all of the variants that he makes. These sheets include a table of resistor values to use to achieve the desired load. He would probably even throw in a set of resistor pairs that correspond to your needs based on the cartridge and the input impedance of the MM preamp. Further, there are several different options for grounding - one of which will be suitable if hum is an issue.

I have tried several different active head amps in the past and never liked any as much as a SUT with proper loading. You get noiseless gain with SUTs.

Finally, you can read all about this stuff and look up the recommended load for cartridges in the database at Vinyl Engine

Thanks, it looks like those run $300-$650, depending on version and DIY/assembled.

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

I have the Denon 300LC SUT, which goes for about $200 to $250 used on eBay (there are currently a ton of used ones available). My cart is the Denon 301-MK2

It's excellent! I used to own the ProJect Tube Box SEII which has a great MM setting but a noisy as f**k MC setting. The SUT solved that problem!

Recently I traded the ProJect for the Vincent Pho8 which has a far cleaner MC setting. Even so, I like the sound of the SUT into the MM setting better. As clean as the Vincent's MC is, the MM is DEAD quiet. And the SUT has it's own sound that I really like. Bass is more authoritative and the music has more impact. I listen to a lot of Dubstep vinyl so this is major for me!

If you want I could rip a minute of a record, one with the SUT and one without so you can compare.

 

[watchnerd]

Bass is more authoritative and the music has more impact.

Should a correctly loaded SUT do that?

I thought it was supposed to measure flat, i.e. be transparent.

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

That's just my impression. Tell you what, I'll rip those samples and you can decide for yourself which you like more.

 

[watchnerd]

That's just my impression. Tell you what, I'll rip those samples and you can decide for yourself which you like more.

I can't really evaluate that way if it uses music I'm not familiar with.

Plus, I would just be expressing a preference. It wouldn't be an indicator of whether the SUT is flat or not.

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

Here you go! Some Digital Mystikz to help you with your SUT buying decision

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mcu9umzuwyb1i29/SUT_test.zip/file

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

I can't really evaluate that way if it uses music I'm not familiar with.

Plus, I would just be expressing a preference. It wouldn't be an indicator of whether the SUT is flat or not.

Here's your opportunity to judge the pro's and con's of a SUT with your own ears, just take it! Or not. Either way, cheers bruh it was fun to put some Mystikz on the 'table

 

[watchnerd]

Here's your opportunity to judge the pro's and con's of a SUT with your own ears, just take it! Or not. Either way, cheers bruh it was fun to put some Mystikz on the 'table

Yeah, they sound blatantly different, like they're from different masterings.

But I have no idea which is more true to the original source.

 

[watchnerd]

Here's your opportunity to judge the pro's and con's of a SUT with your own ears, just take it! Or not. Either way, cheers bruh it was fun to put some Mystikz on the 'table

BTW, what's the rest of the system, particularly the cartridge?

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

Cart is a Denon 301 MK2 and the turntable is a Technics 1200 MK2.

Recorded with a Tascam DR40 and normalized to -1 db in Audacity.

 

[sergeauckland]

That's just my impression. Tell you what, I'll rip those samples and you can decide for yourself which you like more.

But what has 'liking' to do with high fidelity or accuracy. What you (or I) may like is not a measure of how good something is.

S

 

[SIY]

Cart is a Denon 301 MK2 and the turntable is a Technics 1200 MK2.

That's a very nice setup.

 

[audiopile]

I own a few SUTs to try and match up with my few LOMC carts. I know it shows a stunning lack of originality -but the best success I've had is with using OEM SUT's designed to work with the same manufacturers carts (Denon with Denon ,Ortofon with Ortofon ,etc.).. Perfection has always been both out of my reach and frankly gets in the way of enjoying the music on my LP's. I will instantly concede that LP playback seems absolutely wacky from start to finish -everything interacts with everything else (either mechanically or electrically -if not both . I settle for as precise mechanical set up as I can achieve (partially to help prevent record wear) and not doing anything to overdrive or pollute the signal in the electrical sphere. SUT's are certainly not a universal solution for stepping up a LOMC - but properly matched I simply enjoy the music more thru a matched SUT/cart combo compared to all but a few SS high gain phono preamps or headamps.

 

[watchnerd]

I own a few SUTs to try and match up with my few LOMC carts. I know it shows a stunning lack of originality -but the best success I've had is with using OEM SUT's designed to work with the same manufacturers carts (Denon with Denon ,Ortofon with Ortofon ,etc.)..

Not that it's a bad strategy, but as far as I know this would constrain one to using Denon, Ortofon, or Audio Technica carts, right?

I don't know of any other cart makers that still make matching SUTs....

 

[Frank Dernie]

Not that it's a bad strategy, but as far as I know this would constrain one to using Denon, Ortofon, or Audio Technica carts, right?

I don't know of any other cart makers that still make matching SUTs....

TBH that is not a terrible choice IMHO, these are manufacturers with the knowledge and tooling to make consistent and good cartridges unlike some of the boutique makers whose output consistency is suspect, to say the least.