Step Up Transformers? Pros / Cons?

[maty]

Lundahl LL1931 Moving-Coil Transformer Review & Test

https://www.avhub.com.au/product-re...31-moving-coil-transformer-review-test-490591

https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wooden-case/

 

[audiopile]

I made my living setting up arms/carts for a few decades -have 50 years experience doing this odd task. From this experience when it comes to SUT's a couple of things need to be recognized - ignoring these will get a really bad result : a.) SUT's are not universal -not a one. A transformer that's a gift from the audio godz with cart A can sound like dreck with Cart B from a different manufacturer or even a different model within the same line. b.) Not ALL MM phono stages work well when fed with a signal from a SUT. In the spec wars some MM stages have been designed with relatively low output HOMC in mind and work well with this class of cartridges - but a ignored or just plain not stated "spec" is just how much signal can you stuff intoa particular MM phono stage before it overloads ? While my nomination for worst sound achievable in a HiFi system is a overdriven A2D - a overdriven phono stage is a close second and often confused with mistracking or amp clipping. In the end LP playback is a constant search for better and that "better" is defined by the listener. So-headamps or ultra high gain phono stages are much closer to universally useful from LOMC to LOMC choice . Ya go for whatever is more important for your ears.

 

[watchnerd]

TBH that is not a terrible choice IMHO, these are manufacturers with the knowledge and tooling to make consistent and good cartridges unlike some of the boutique makers whose output consistency is suspect, to say the least.

No doubt, especially given that they also have a wide range of price points from budget to stratospheric.

Granted, you don't get the mystique and artisanship of something made by hand by a Japanese grandpa in his basement...

 

[Frank Dernie]

Granted, you don't get the mystique and artisanship of something made by hand by a Japanese grandpa in his basement...

thankfully...
I wonder how often two hand made cartridges are the same?

 

[watchnerd]

Lundahl LL1931 Moving-Coil Transformer Review & Test

https://www.avhub.com.au/product-re...31-moving-coil-transformer-review-test-490591

https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wooden-case/

I like this company slogan. Could apply to DAC and amp makers, too:

"Lundahl’s company slogan is one of the best we’ve ever heard. It is: ‘If you can hear it, it’s not ours.’"

 

[Blumlein 88]

Lundahl LL1931 Moving-Coil Transformer Review & Test

https://www.avhub.com.au/product-re...31-moving-coil-transformer-review-test-490591

https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wooden-case/

Doesn't even make it flat to DC. What kind of rubbish is this?

 

[Soniclife]

Not that it's a bad strategy, but as far as I know this would constrain one to using Denon, Ortofon, or Audio Technica carts, right?

I don't know of any other cart makers that still make matching SUTs....

Dynavector make them as well.

 

[audiopile]

They need to take a page from speaker specs :"DC to light plus/minus infinity" has always inspired me

 

[orangejello]

LPs when properly played back sound lovely in their own right. This is not a competition. It is about musical enjoyment as far as I am concerned.

Not that it's a bad strategy, but as far as I know this would constrain one to using Denon, Ortofon, or Audio Technica carts, right?

I don't know of any other cart makers that still make matching SUTs....

ZYX was selling them recently as was Ortophon. But to your question, you can used a lot of OEM SUTs with other cartridges. They just need to provide the gain that you are looking for and you still must match impedance. If the SUT doesn’t have variable impedance selection then you just need to parallel the correct impedance resistors with the input resistors on the phono preamp side. I used to do that with a Denon SUT while running various cartridges. I soldered some standup wire off of the input resistors and then could easily solder the parallel resistors to the standup.

All that being said, there is no reason to use OEM other than that you might like the result that you get with it and you might get the correct impedance without having to do anything.

 

[orangejello]

Lundahl LL1931 Moving-Coil Transformer Review & Test

https://www.avhub.com.au/product-re...31-moving-coil-transformer-review-test-490591

https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wooden-case/

That is the one in my K&K.

 

[watchnerd]

That is the one in my K&K.

Which K&K do you have?

 

[watchnerd]

Lundahl LL1931 Moving-Coil Transformer Review & Test

https://www.avhub.com.au/product-re...31-moving-coil-transformer-review-test-490591

https://www.lundahltransformers.com/wooden-case/

Is there any particular pros vs cons of cylindrical transformers (like Cinemag or Jensen, often in a Mu metal can) vs cubical types (no can)?

 

[SIY]

You absolutely want a mu-metal can with as much shielding as possible.

 

[audiopile]

The Denon LOMC (most of which are 40 ohm carts) are a particularly nice argument for using their own SUT's made for that somewhat odd input loading requirement. Because in some markets Denon sold packages of LOMC with the matching SUT -the DEnon SUT's are floating around on the used markets for pretty reasonable prices. Lots of folks aren't comfortable with a soldering iron - this is pretty much the (reasonably) cheap n easy way to get a well matched cart and SUT combo. I won't say I'm not a bit frustrated by the lack of more detailed specs for some ancient and honorable SUT's - directions that say plug cart in here -plug output into MM input are leaving a lot of blanks where information should be.

 

[orangejello]

Which K&K do you have?

It is just labeled “Premium”. I have had it for 6-7 years if memory serves and it has 8 and 16 winding ratios. It has variable grounding schemes and a place to insert loading resistors. Very convenient and quiet. I have used it with half a dozen cartridges. It worked particularly well with the Lyra Delos. At the moment I am using what was a NOS Monster Sigma Genesis 2000. Sounds great too. The Delos worked well with the 8x gain. The Monster needs 16x.

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

That's a very nice setup.

Hey thanks! I've had the 1200 since I DJed house and techno in college, so like 12 years now. I love it. The 301 MK2 is also recommended and it sounds like a great match for the 1200. My old electronic dance singles sound so damn good now most of them are 45rpm with super deep and wide grooves

 

[ClosDeLaRoche]

The Denon LOMC (most of which are 40 ohm carts) are a particularly nice argument for using their own SUT's made for that somewhat odd input loading requirement.

Yup, the 301 MK2 is at 33 ohms. Sounds great directly into the 100 ohm MC stage of the preamp but IMO sounds better with the 300LC SUT. Feel free to download those files and hear for yourself, who knows maybe you'll disagree and change your mind

 

[watchnerd]

Yup, the 301 MK2 is at 33 ohms. Sounds great with directly into the 100 ohm MC stage of the preamp but IMO sounds better with the 300LC SUT.

That's a bit surprising.....at 33 ohms internal impedance, following the usual 10x rule of thumb, I would have expect loading north of 300 ohms to be the starting point.

 

[watchnerd]

Just noticed this particular Denon SUT is just shy of $3000:

https://www.lpgear.com/product/DENONAUS1.html

Which, as far as I know, makes it considerably more expensive than any Denon cart.

Odd....

 

[audiopile]

The current Denon SUT's are a bit expensive - but look for the older Denon SUT's from the 60's ,70's and even 80's . I do wonder about using the DL-103r carts with a 15 ohm coil with SUT's designed to work with 40 ohm coil DL-103 carts ?