Minidsp Flex Review (Audio DSP)

[juliangst]

Interesting....so the chain would go

Wiim pro -coaxial-flex digital-
Flex- coaxial-dac3L-XLR-Benchmark Amp
Flex- coaxial-(unknown dac)-RCA-Subs

But wait a minute which volume control would i use?

Thanks

The digital volume of the flex

 

[radix]

Why not the flex digital? You could still use the benchmark and get a cheap DAC for the subs

I think the Benchmark DAC outputs are 2x balanced and 4x unbalanced. As @juiangst says [about using the Flex digital], you could also go Wiim -> digital -> Flex -> digital -> Benchmark DAC -> {subs (RCA), amp (XLR)}. The only issue is you'd be sending full range to the amp. Or do the 2x DAC choice. Some subs might even have digital in.


I'd avoid putting it between the DAC and amp, as Benchmark has really married those devices well and it would be a shame to put something between them.

 

[juliangst]

Or just get the Balanced Flex and use TRS to RCA cables for the sub. They just need to have Pin 3 not connected

 

[Monty67]

I think the Benchmark DAC outputs are 2x balanced and 4x unbalanced. As @juiangst says [about using the Flex digital], you could also go Wiim -> digital -> Flex -> digital -> Benchmark DAC -> {subs (RCA), amp (XLR)}. The only issue is you'd be sending full range to the amp. Or do the 2x DAC choice. Some subs might even have digital in.
Full range to the amp? What do you mean?

I'd avoid putting it between the DAC and amp, as Benchmark has really married those devices well and it would be a shame to put something between them.

Avoid putting the flex between the dac and amp? Wouldnt the flex go before the dac?

 

[Monty67]

At the moment the way i understand things, seems like the easiest thing to do is get the flex digital. And a cheap dac for my sub.

Oh i just seen the response from julian about getting the flex and using trs to rca cables. .......that seems pretty easy

 

[juliangst]

With the both the digital and analog flex you could also just use the Wiim as a volume control.
Both the flex and wiim use digital volume and should be virtually lossless.

 

[radix]

At the moment the way i understand things, seems like the easiest thing to do is get the flex digital. And a cheap dac for my sub.

Oh i just seen the response from julian about getting the flex and using trs to rca cables. .......that seems pretty easy

Your choices are:

1. Put analog flex between DAC and amp. You could use either volume control, but I'd pick one.
2. Put digital flex between wiim and DAC, with crossover in Flex and new DAC for subs (or a sub with a DAC). Need to use flex volume.
3. Put digital flex between wiim and DAC, use 3 DAC outputs. Use crossover on sub. Speakers get full range. Use DAC or flex volume control.

#1 is the normal way to use the flex. #2 works just as well. #3 has no new gear, keeps the DAC volume control, but has no high pass filter for speakers. DIRAC would do the same thing in all 3 configurations (DIRAC is only 2 channels and expects the crossover to happen after it).

I had a knee-jerk reaction to avoid putting something between the benchmark gear, as it is so well engineered to work together. But I imagine the difference is not perceptible.

 

[Monty67]

Your choices are:

1. Put analog flex between DAC and amp. You could use either volume control, but I'd pick one.
2. Put digital flex between wiim and DAC, with crossover in Flex and new DAC for subs (or a sub with a DAC). Need to use flex volume.
3. Put digital flex between wiim and DAC, use 3 DAC outputs. Use crossover on sub. Speakers get full range. Use DAC or flex volume control.

#1 is the normal way to use the flex. #2 works just as well. #3 has no new gear, keeps the DAC volume control, but has no high pass filter for speakers. DIRAC would do the same thing in all 3 configurations (DIRAC is only 2 channels and expects the crossover to happen after it).

I had a knee-jerk reaction to avoid putting something between the benchmark gear, as it is so well engineered to work together. But I imagine the difference is not perceptible.

Thanks for the breakdown.
I do pause my self when i think about getting rid of the dac 3 l.

And because of that i might go with option 2.

Need to chew it over.
Thanks

 

[mdsimon2]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think your original idea of getting a SHD is a good idea.

It gives the most the I/O flexibility, you could use the digital outputs in to the Benchmark DAC + cheap DAC for the sub or you could use the analog outputs directly in to your amp + sub. As it has balanced and unbalanced analog outputs you won't need to worry about adapting from balanced to unbalanced for your sub, it should also be immune from turn on/off pops and hum which you may experience with a balanced to unbalanced adapter / cable going in to your sub.

Because you have the option of directly comparing your system with and without the benchmark DAC it would be a good way to decide if the Benchmark DAC should remain in your system.

Downsides compared to the Flex options are higher cost and larger form factor, but if you can do everything in the SHD and don't need the Benchmark DAC or a separate DAC for your sub it may end up being more compact.

Michael

 

[antcollinet]

At the moment the way i understand things, seems like the easiest thing to do is get the flex digital. And a cheap dac for my sub.

Oh i just seen the response from julian about getting the flex and using trs to rca cables. .......that seems pretty easy

Agreed. The problem with using a different DAC for the sub is you may get different latency (delay) from the two different DACs, causing a phase shift (or even an audible delay) between Sub and Mains.

 

[Monty67]

Agreed. The problem with using a different DAC for the sub is you may get different latency (delay) from the two different DACs, causing a phase shift (or even an audible delay) between Sub and Mains.

So i never considered that there might be a delay between two different dacs.

 

[antcollinet]

So i never considered that there might be a delay between two different dacs.

All dacs have a buffer to allow for clock synchronisation. There will be a delay through the dac depending on the buffer length. The buffer length in two different designs (or at least using two different DAC chips) is unlikely to be the same.

 

[Monty67]

At this point im leaning towards the SHD.

I guess this would be much more straight forward if the sub had balanced ins. Would get the flex balanced and call it a day.

I thought i read about the balanced to unbalanced adapter being an issue. And it looks like it was brought up here.

The digital seems interesting, but i would have to wrap my head around two identical dacs.

The flex unbalanced is coming into my view more...but i tend to think that XLR balanced connection is better whenever possible.

The SHD is kinda pricey in my opinion. Especially when i compare it to the flex units.

I need to mull it over some more. The way forward is definitely clear as mud for me at the moment.....

 

[radix]

All dacs have a buffer to allow for clock synchronisation. There will be a delay through the dac depending on the buffer length. The buffer length in two different designs (or at least using two different DAC chips) is unlikely to be the same.

But would not the Flex be able to synchronize those delays, as it controls both outputs? Or would there be too much jitter between them?

 

[antcollinet]

At this point im leaning towards the SHD.

I guess this would be much more straight forward if the sub had balanced ins. Would get the flex balanced and call it a day.

I thought i read about the balanced to unbalanced adapter being an issue. And it looks like it was brought up here.

The digital seems interesting, but i would have to wrap my head around two identical dacs.

The flex unbalanced is coming into my view more...but i tend to think that XLR balanced connection is better whenever possible.

The SHD is kinda pricey in my opinion. Especially when i compare it to the flex units.

I need to mull it over some more. The way forward is definitely clear as mud for me at the moment.....

Balanced to unbalanced is not an issue at all (I'm using it right now)

There is a documented drop in sinad on the analogue input if you use the miniDSP unbalanced to balanced cable, but this is irrelevant to your use case, and I think is likely not to be an issue in any case if a correctly wired cable is used. In any case, even after the drop it is still better than most analogue sources.

 

[Monty67]

Balanced to unbalanced is not an issue at all (I'm using it right now)

There is a documented drop in sinad on the analogue input if you use the miniDSP unbalanced to balanced cable, but this is irrelevant to your use case, and I think is likely not to be an issue in any case if a correctly wired cable is used. In any case, even after the drop it is still better than most analogue sources.

Well if thats the case, that the documented drop is on the analog input, then you are right. Thats not my use case at all. Im not plugging anything in to the analog inputs of the flex.

My use case would be

Wiim pro digital coaxial to flex. I would use the analog outputs of the flex.

Could you link the trs to rca adapter you are using?

Thanks

 

[juliangst]

Well if thats the case, that the documented drop is on the analog input, then you are right. Thats not my use case at all. Im not plugging anything in to the analog inputs of the flex.

My use case would be

Wiim pro digital coaxial to flex. I would use the analog outputs of the flex.

Could you link the trs to rca adapter you are using?

Thanks

MiniDSP says you should only use TRS to RCA cables where the TRS tip is connected to the RCA tip and the TRS sleeve is connected to RCA shield.

This can easily be achieved by getting a stereo TRS to dual RCA cable and just using the left channel RCA for the sub.

By ignoring the right RCA (green line) you essentially have a TRS to RCA adapter with Pin 3 (ring on TRS) floating.

 

[Monty67]

MiniDSP says you should only use TRS to RCA cables where the TRS tip is connected to the RCA tip and the TRS sleeve is connected to RCA shield.

This can easily be achieved by getting a stereo TRS to dual RCA cable and just using the left channel RCA for the sub.

By ignoring the right RCA (green line) you essentially have a TRS to RCA adapter with Pin 3 (ring on TRS) floating.

Thanks for the breakdown.

 

[abdo123]

Those who are looking to buy one in Europe, I have one available:

SOLD!!!: (EU/BE) MiniDSP Flex (unbalanced)

Used for less than a year, with the original packaging and all the cables and accessories. basically 100% the same as buying new. EVERYTHING is still in mint condition. Amir's review: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minidsp-flex-review-audio-dsp.30804/

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Joffy1780]

Agreed. The problem with using a different DAC for the sub is you may get different latency (delay) from the two different DACs, causing a phase shift (or even an audible delay) between Sub and Mains.

As @radix said any delays can be rectified within the flex settings.

Considering you have a fantastic DAC already, I would go the flex digital and cheap DAC for subs option.