Gustard A26 DAC & Streamer Review

[peniku8]

BTW, the suggestion for the line came from comments in my last youtube video on "speed reading DAC measurements." I always say that -115 dB so folks suggested I draw a line to make it clear.

The line is misleading imo and might result in some readers drawing the wrong conclusions from it, spreading misinformation in the worst case.
I understand that you draw the line for simplicity as "if nothing except the stimulus exceeds this, the DAC is audibly perfect to humans", but I would suggest calling it something like "ASR target". Because "threshold of hearing" it is not.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Well... Has foobar taking control of internal volume of an amp or DAC ever been a thing ? Does foobar include any algorithm for customised suggestions? A working search function to begin with? May foobar support plug n' play multiroom playback? Does it melt both local files and Qobuz + Tidal in the same library?

Jriver I believe does all of that, bar Streaming services.

It's OK if you don't like Roon. Then don't use it. Problem solved. AFAIC,

I don't like Roon and you do, that's by the by.
The question was, why has this Roon Ready become such a Must-Have?
Isn't it the job of Roon as a software engine, and therefore much more flexible and Smart, to be able to adapt and accommodate all standard endpoints?

 

[Deleted member 51584]

That I'm tired to read over and over, "the xxx DAC does the same at a fraction of the price"... No, it does not. It doesn't have the same features at all, nor the inputs, nor outputs. It has nothing in common regarding build quality and internal components. And no, we don't chose a product (which can't be summarised by its analog output performance) based on a single SINAD number.


Well... Has foobar taking control of internal volume of an amp or DAC ever been a thing ? Does foobar include any algorithm for customised suggestions? A working search function to begin with? May foobar support plug n' play multiroom playback? Does it melt both local files and Qobuz + Tidal in the same library?

So far, another apples and oranges comparison, I regret.

It's OK if you don't like Roon. Then don't use it. Problem solved. AFAIC, I personally hate foobar2000, which I used for years before buying Roon. The same way I don't understand playing music through folders in 2023. Both belong to the stone age of computer audio playback, IMHO.

The problem with reviewing streaming as hardware is that streaming is mostly about software. This product's software doesn't get off first base for me. It's a bit like a car with great performance, but they forgot to fit any seats.

 

[glc650]

It had 18 bits of resolution and some high measured noise that is well below audible. So for me that's a win, for ASR a fail. Plus ASR failed to get the BluOs app to work, I used it faultlessly for 3 years. So different perception.

I was reading earlier this evening that ASR considers peak SPL 130dB and 115dB DR is needed. My limit is 100dB and I'm reaching for the volume control to turn it down. 60-65dB DR does me fine, usually a lot less. The A26 may measure slightly better, but it doesn't seem to be of any practical benefit or merit paying 3 times the price for a product with grossly inferior streaming capabilities.

None of that negates the fact that the A26 is still in a performance class that is well above anything from Bluesound. That's a big part of the A26's price. If the Node 2i is good enough for you, more power to you, but it makes little sense to compare devices that are clearly at different ends of the performance spectrum.

 

[JustJones]

Jriver I believe does all of that, bar Streaming services.

I don't like Roon and you do, that's by the by.
The question was, why has this Roon Ready become such a Must-Have?
Isn't it the job of Roon as a software engine, and therefore much more flexible and Smart, to be able to adapt and accommodate all standard endpoints?

No, it isn't open source.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

No, it isn't open source.

?

 

[Deleted member 51584]

None of that negates the fact that the A26 is still in a performance class that is well above anything from Bluesound. That's a big part of the A26's price. If the Node 2i is good enough for you, more power to you, but it makes little sense to compare devices that are clearly at different ends of the performance spectrum.

The A26 and the Node 2i are not at "different ends of the performance spectrum". audibly they are probably very close if not indistinguishable. It's "good enough" for a huge number of customers around the world. The problem with the A26 is that it probably needs a good usb streaming source, which makes it an expensive DAC.

 

[Deleted member 51584]

I don't like Roon and you do, that's by the by.
The question was, why has this Roon Ready become such a Must-Have?
Isn't it the job of Roon as a software engine, and therefore much more flexible and Smart, to be able to adapt and accommodate all standard endpoints?

Roon is many things, but Roon RAAT (the software that makes products Roon Ready) saves manufacturers millions of $/£/€ spending years developing their own streaming transport software. Roon make most of their other software available for free, including Roon Bridge.

Just as nCore is OEM hardware that lots of manufacturers adopt because it's vastly cheaper than developing their own Class D Module, Roon RAAT is OEM streaming software that really has no competition. The only issue is you have to pay $500 or something for a license, but some manufacturers throw that in as part of the deal.

The proof of the efficacy of these OEM packages is how many devices have drop-in nCore amplifiers/power supplies and how many manufacturers are Roon Partners. It's just an obvious business decision.

 

[JustJones]

?

Why is it Roon's job to accommodate every standard endpoint? I'm not sure what is meant by standard endpoint? Roon isn't open source software though there are some open source components and those are free to download and use.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Roon is many things, but Roon RAAT (the software that makes products Roon Ready) saves manufacturers millions of $/£/€ spending years developing their own streaming transport software. Roon make most of their other software available for free, including Roon Bridge.

Just as nCore is OEM hardware that lots of manufacturers adopt because it's vastly cheaper than developing their own Class D Module, Roon RAAT is OEM streaming software that really has no competition. The only issue is you have to pay $500 or something for a license, but some manufacturers throw that in as part of the deal.

The proof of the efficacy of these OEM packages is how many devices have drop-in nCore amplifiers/power supplies and how many manufacturers are Roon Partners. It's just an obvious business decision.

Thank you.
That was a proper answer.
I suppose if the hardware did come with a bundled software to make it work, I wouldn't have objected.
Frankly, I did try Roon. My issue with it was that, at times, I couldn't tell it what to do, Roon was telling me what I should do.
And that $120 a year subscription, makes it by far the most expensive player.
At least it works.

 

[audiotron]

But its performance is excellent, far above the best well trained golden ears threshold !
Not the best in absolute terms, but who cares ? What do you want more ? It won't change anything for listening.
As I wrote many times, the never ending quest for the absolute best measured perf is a nonsense goal.

And the built quality seems beyond reproach. I like the two big power transformers, it changes for the better from those tiny plastic external powers sold with many cheaper Dacs.

The sinad could have been better for the money.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Why is it Roon's job to accommodate every standard endpoint? I'm not sure what is meant by standard endpoint? Roon isn't open source software though there are some open source components and those are free to download and use.

Thanx for explaining.
A piece of hardware is far more rigid than software. I expect software to be updated to accommodate future compatibility.
Standard endpoints are such devices that abide Standard Protocols.
A usb DAC, a UPNP player etc. are examples of standard endpoints.
I know Roon is not open source, but that has nothing to do with anything.
I use Jriver. If it refuses to work with a standard USB DAC, I would expect Jriver to remedy that in their next update, rather than me buying a Jriver-ready DAC. That's why I paid them in the first place.

 

[JustJones]

Thanx for explaining.
A piece of hardware is far more rigid than software. I expect software to be updated to accommodate future compatibility.
Standard endpoints are such devices that abide Standard Protocols.
A usb DAC, a UPNP player etc. are examples of standard endpoints.
I know Roon is not open source, but that has nothing to do with anything.
I use Jriver. If it refuses to work with a standard USB DAC, I would expect Jriver to remedy that in their next update, rather than me buying a Jriver-ready DAC. That's why I paid them in the first place.

JRiver has Windows, OSX and Linux system requirements . If my system doesn't match their requirements then it's incumbent on JRiver update their software to accommodate me? Not sure anything works that way.

 

[glc650]

but Roon RAAT (the software that makes products Roon Ready)

RAAT does not mean Roon Ready. RAAT is a streaming protocol similar to AirPlay or Chromecast but with more features and less limitations. The Roon Ready program or Roon bridge software are the only ways to implement RAAT support.

 

[Deleted member 51584]

RAAT does not mean Roon Ready. RAAT is a streaming protocol similar to AirPlay or Chromecast but with more features and less limitations. The Roon Ready program or Roon bridge software are the only ways to implement RAAT support.

Accepted. I think RAAT is the transport and Bridge is the bit that takes the data to the DAC. The beauty is that as a user you don't need to know this stuff, it just works. The Roon app controls your device and you're done.

The point being, just as you would have to design the electronics of an integrated music system around an nCore amplifier, you have to design your streamer operating system around the Roon software that makes your product Roon Ready. It takes some time and money, and requires Roon certification. Most of my Roon Ready units, the manufacturer did it from scratch in 6 months. None of these Chinese outfits seem prepared to make the effort. It may be because they are mainly selling into mainland China where Roon probably does not exist.

 

[muslhead]

Thank you.
That was a proper answer.

At least it works.

Hmm, not wrong but not right.
At least it works .... most of the time seems a more appropriate response.
I, for one, dropped roon this month because it didnt work for 7 months of my year susbscription and they still dont have a fix. All tech resources are battling problems with their new releases and have no bandwidth to fix anything else

 

[CtheArgie]

JRiver has Windows, OSX and Linux system requirements . If my system doesn't match their requirements then it's incumbent on JRiver update their software to accommodate me? Not sure anything works that way.

Wow! My JRiver works perfectly with my Mac mini, my Mac PowerBook and the JRemote works with no problems with my iPad.

The mini is connected to a RME ADI-DAC and the PowerBook to a SMSL-9n.

 

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

Heavily overpriced. Topping e30 should sound the same at the fraction of its price.

 

[formdissolve]

This is off topic, but most threads go off topic within 20 mins here.. anyways, I really enjoy Roon, but it's a pain if you want to use the software on the go. They have come a long way with their Roon ARC stuff (which basically just tunnels to your home internet and uses your home upload bandwidth), but that currently only exists as a phone app. I wish they'd implement that in the desktop app for those want to use the Roon player and the pretty powerful DSP it offers.

 

[amirm]

The line is misleading imo and might result in some readers drawing the wrong conclusions from it, spreading misinformation in the worst case.
I understand that you draw the line for simplicity as "if nothing except the stimulus exceeds this, the DAC is audibly perfect to humans", but I would suggest calling it something like "ASR target". Because "threshold of hearing" it is not.

What? That is not my opinion. It is summary of peer-reviewed journal of AES by ex president of AES. I suggest you study the references I have at the end of the paper I linked to.