Quality speakers for classical music with high output/volume

[Sokel]

Almost exclusively for personal listening (or few people). But why would the speakers also not work for gatherings, if they have a large output?

OK,can you describe what "large output" means to you?
Or a place that you experience similar levels?

then one could recommend something like the BMR Monitor speakers at $1700 a pair for a speaker with a very wide soundstage that handles classical music very well.

BMR towers paired with a powerfull amp seems like a good option.

 

[excelsius]

OK,can you describe what "large output" means to you?
Or a place that you experience similar levels?

It would mean that even if multiple people were speaking, it would drown speech. That is, instead of a small group of people overpowering the speakers, they should have a hard time hearing each other. Much like during the peaks of an orchestra performing--you wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, much less worry that your conversation will overpower the sound.

I have put together my notes from this thread and will post a summary response likely today.

 

[excelsius]

Let me say as a loudspeaker engineer that is a contradiction. To vastly oversimplify things, big sound needs big speakers (or, to cheat in some sense, smaller speakers with a big subwoofer).

Can you explain more? I thought a sub just outputs lower frequencies/bass. If I want to blast let's say Bach's Chaconne (solo violin), how will a sub help here?
Also, what size of speakers (or other properties) do you mean by big speakers?

 

[Sokel]

It would mean that even if multiple people were speaking, it would drown speech. That is, instead of a small group of people overpowering the speakers, they should have a hard time hearing each other. Much like during the peaks of an orchestra performing--you wouldn't be able to hold a conversation, much less worry that your conversation will overpower the sound.

I have put together my notes from this thread and will post a summary response likely today.

You definitely gonna need bigger speakers then.
Much bigger than the suggestions.

 

[Triliza]

I'm not sure you'll need all that large of an output op, if I remember correctly of some of the threads about how loud people listen, I think that the majority of us are at about 70-80 db (my usual level is even lower). Especially if you live in an apartment, it'll be difficult to reach high levels anyway.

I haven't exactly understood the perceived difference between bookshelf+sub and big tower speakers, or how that shows with in room measurements, but visually at least I'd think bigger speakers may give us the impression of "bigger" sound. Since you don't want towers, have a look at Wharfedale Linton 85th if they are something you could fit in your decor.

 

[FrankW]

I have put together my notes from this thread and will post a summary response likely today.

Maybe clarify whether you would consider a MCH system or stick with 2ch/My-Fi only. Perhaps overall budget and actual SPL goal too.
Don't know how loud your friends are, but if they can drown out 3 Revel F36 90db/2.83v speakers ($2300ish on sale) across front being driven hard by a decent AVR, playing Rachmaninoff, they're a lot louder than my friends.

 

[Sokel]

I'm not sure you'll need all that large of an output op, if I remember correctly of some of the threads about how loud people listen, I think that the majority of us are at about 70-80 db (my usual level is even lower).

Have you ever measured 5-6 people talking in a room?70-80db is not even their noise floor silently breathing.
OP wants to blanket them as in a venue.
That's why we must ask the needs,THERE'S NO ONE-FIT SOLUTION for EVERYONE.

 

[sejarzo]

My take is that most systems that can play relatively cleanly on crescendos still don't make them sound "live."

Toole lays out why fairly succinctly in Chapter 1 of his book in the sections you can read for free in the Kindle sample on Amazon.

 

[Keith_W]

Can you explain more? I thought a sub just outputs lower frequencies/bass. If I want to blast let's say Bach's Chaconne (solo violin), how will a sub help here?
Also, what size of speakers (or other properties) do you mean by big speakers?

A lot of the ambience of the room is captured in low bass. Even if the violin does not go that low, ambient sound does. If you have it, it will give your music a sense of space and realism.

 

[sejarzo]

Can you explain more? I thought a sub just outputs lower frequencies/bass. If I want to blast let's say Bach's Chaconne (solo violin), how will a sub help here?
Also, what size of speakers (or other properties) do you mean by big speakers?

Uh....why would you want to blast that? A realistic reproduction of a solo violin wouldn't require anything more than 95 dB to reproduce the loudest peaks that a violinist gets at his or her ear, based on recommendations for hearing protection for various instrumentalists; some place the peak at only 92 dB. From a seat in even a small venue, the SPL at proper listening distance is much, much lower.

 

[mj30250]

You definitely gonna need bigger speakers then.
Much bigger than the suggestions.

I don't know that this is a certainty. Unless it contains high ceilings, the OP's room is not huge per the dimensions provided (a smidgeon over 2200 cu ft assuming standard 8ft ceilings). I have a similarly sized living room and a pair of relatively small Ascend Sierra LXs can easily render conversations virtually inaudible if they're cranked up. My wife would certainly attest to that. Positioning and dispersion of the speakers will impact this, of course. I'd be more concerned about high volume compression and distortion in this case, but there are smaller speakers that perform quite well in this regard, especially if paired with a sub.

Uh....why would you want to blast that? A realistic reproduction of a solo violin wouldn't require anything more than 95 dB to reproduce the loudest peaks that a violinist gets at his or her ear, based on recommendations for hearing protection for various instrumentalists; some place the peak at only 92 dB. From a seat in even a small venue, the SPL at proper listening distance is much, much lower.

Agreed. Most of your high SPLs are created by lower frequencies. You can always crank up your favorite music, take SPL readings, and then do the same with your speakers crossed at ~150Hz with any subs turned off. In most cases, you'll see a large drop in max and average SPL. A 100 dB bass hit (or louder) can certainly be fun. I don't think I have any interest in hearing a violin at 100 dB, especially not over any sustained period of time.

 

[JustJones]

Drowning out conversations with loud music Sounds like a family gathering. There are a lot of speakers that could do that as long as sticking to preference scores are not a priority.

 

[sejarzo]

I have put together my notes from this thread and will post a summary response likely today.

Given everything that's been posted in these 10 pages, I wonder if you're going to tell us we were all just unwitting subjects in some psych experiment on group thinking.

 

[Sokel]

I don't know that this is a certainty. Unless it contains high ceilings, OP's room is not huge per the dimensions provided (a smidgeon over 2200 cu ft assuming standard 8ft ceilings). I have a similarly sized living room and a pair of relatively small Ascend Sierra LXs can easily render conversations virtually inaudible if they're cranked up. My wife would certainly attest to that. Positioning and dispersion of the speakers will impact this, of course. I'd be more concerned about high volume compression and distortion in this case, but there are small speakers that perform quite well in this regard, especially if paired with a sub.

I do not disagree about 2-3 people talking normally,any speaker can blanket them if cranked up (bad ones with 1000% distortion others will just scream at the voice's freq's,small good ones will sound better and big ones will be up to the task with ease).
But talking more than 5-6 ones,things are different.

Specially if they talk on top of each other,laughing,etc.
Gatherings like this is the reason of the larger number of burned tweeters.

 

[Triliza]

Have you ever measured 5-6 people talking in a room?70-80db is not even their noise floor silently breathing.
OP wants to blanket them as in a venue.
That's why we must ask the needs,THERE'S NO ONE-FIT SOLUTION for EVERYONE.

I don't disagree with you, the op knows better his needs. If he haven't measured how loud he would like to go though, even with an app in his phone, he may think he'll need more than he will eventually be comfortable with. I'd think all the recommended speakers in this thread will be able to cover his needs in terms of spl, but of course I may be wrong. When the gang is around, maybe he could just move the couch next to the speakers, that will do it for sure

 

[mj30250]

I do not disagree about 2-3 people talking normally,any speaker can blanket them if cranked up (bad ones with 1000% distortion others will just scream at the voice's freq's,small good ones will sound better and big ones will be up to the task with ease).
But talking more than 5-6 ones,things are different.

Specially if they talk on top of each other,laughing,etc.
Gatherings like this is the reason of the larger number of burned tweeters.

True and agreed, but overdriving tweeters to failure is certainly not exclusive to small speakers. For genuine party / club speakers you're generally in the realm of compression drivers / PA speakers. Again, I don't know that the OP has a true understanding of his actual volume needs / desires, simply through lack of experience. Just about anything recommended so far will demolish his small desktop speakers. IMO, auditioning just about any of these will provide a much more useful baseline from which to craft better recommendations, if they are even needed at that point.

 

[Sokel]

I don't disagree with you, the op knows better his needs. If he haven't measured how loud he would to go though, even with an app in his phone, he may think he'll need more than he will eventually be comfortable with. I'd think all the recommended speakers in this thread will be able to cover his needs in terms of spl, but of course I may be wrong. When the gang is around, maybe he could just move the couch next to the speakers, that will do it for sure

I have big speakers in a big room,ok?
They are capable of high spl with ease.

I could use them in our gatherings (about 10 people each time),couldn't I?
Well I don't,instead we rent nice big PAs and have the fun of our life every time.

The reason why is that I go to gatherings too and I have seen a lot of VERY good systems with big speakers and powerful amps failing in bad ways when cranked up for hours.
It's just not their task.

 

[Triliza]

Right, so we switched from classical music to party animals. Wouldn't the Neumann have some kind of internal protection for such cases, maybe they will be a good choice after all.

 

[Sokel]

Right, so we switched from classical music to party animals. Wouldn't the Neumann have some kind of internal protection for such cases, maybe they will be a good choice after all.

Before I give up I just say it one more time.
People like OP without experience must know that the recommendations here is about quality mostly,and the suggestions are excellent in that matter for personal critical listening.

For casual listening around the room with friends and family he can get away with other type of gear,not necessarily of the same quality which WON'T matter in said environment and much cheaper than buying state of the art speakers mend for critical listening,mixing,professional purpose s,etc.
I'm just trying to save him money and sorrow.

 

[Ellebob]

Can you explain more? I thought a sub just outputs lower frequencies/bass. If I want to blast let's say Bach's Chaconne (solo violin), how will a sub help here?
Also, what size of speakers (or other properties) do you mean by big speakers?

When a speaker is used without a sub and its woofer is trying to play at the limit of its low frequency limit it will often get distortion in that below 100hz range and it is this range that can often limit the overall output of the speaker. If you let the sub handle the lower frequencies you will get less distortion and usually a few more decibels of volume out of the speaker when it is not trying to play near its lower frequency limit.

If you need volume you need bigger speakers. Simply, speakers move air and you need bigger speakers to move more air. Whether moving more air uses multiple drivers or larger drivers. The question that is difficult for us to answer is how loud do you need? You are getting suggestions all over the map for various speakers and speculation on how loud you listen. I had a post in a different thread showing a pair of Kali LP-6 speakers playing in the low 90 decibel range at 5 meters away and they sounded very clean. Once they got towards 95db you can tell the speakers were struggling and nearing 100db their limiter kicked in. The low 90s is louder than I would normally ever play in that room and probably more like 70db which would give me 20db of peaks if needed. If you listen closer to 85-90db then you need 105-110db capable speakers at whatever distance you listen.

Decibel loss at distance is another tough thing to measure. Many quote that every doubling the distance you lose 6db. So at 1 meter if a speaker plays 100db at 2m would be 94db and at 4m would be 88db. This formula works well for outside but not in a room where you may only lose 3-4db every doubling because of room gain. That's why I am reaching low 90s 5m away with these speakers that only have a 6.5" woofer.

So the big question is how loud is loud when you say you listen loud? How far are you from the speakers when listening? Get an SPL meter or SPL meter app on your phone and see what levels you listen at. No need to play any special test tones just play whatever music you typically listen and see what the levels are. You should set the SPL meter to slow with C-weighting. Most apps will have these options for SPL. Knowing these levels will help people give better suggestions.