Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[teashea]

No, calibration is not stored in Neumann's servers. It is encoded in the second number you get with mic. First is serial no., second is calibration. Real calibration file is generated from this second number. You don't need to be connected to internet to use MA1 even for the first time. It is standalone system.

Good point. It is a big advantage that the DSP information and settings are stored in the monitor. In fact the audio signal goes to the KH750 and the KH120's are connected to the KH750 rather than to the audio source itself.

For the KH120's with a KH750 the information is stored in the 750. For the KH150's the information is stored in the 150's.

 

[Trell]

Good point. It is a big advantage that the DSP information and settings are stored in the monitor. In fact the audio signal goes to the KH750 and the KH120's are connected to the KH750 rather than to the audio source itself.

For the KH120's with a KH750 the information is stored in the 750. For the KH150's the information is stored in the 150's.

I wanted that for my desktop systems a couple of years ago, so while Neumann makes some very good monitors, their software leaves much to be desired. Genelec works.

 

[teashea]

I wanted that for my desktop systems a couple of years ago, so while Neumann makes some very good monitors, their software leaves much to be desired. Genelec works.

I have found the Neumann MA1 to work quite well.

 

[Trell]

I have found the Neumann MA1 to work quite well.

Nice to hear, but from reading here on ASR as well on Neumann site it's clear to me that that software is not ready for prime time.

To me it's not about cost but features, reliability and usability as the total cost is in the same ball park.

 

[mj30250]

Related to the topic, I've had the KH 150s on my desktop now for a couple of days. They are remarkable speakers, and so far am I exceedingly pleased with the sound quality they're providing in nearfield use.

However, I use big subs in my primary system and I'm missing some bass output, particularly at lower volumes. The 150s are actually quite stout and get the room shaking surprisingly well as I crank the volume up (the bass drum hits on Tool's Chocolate Chip Trip should not sound as clean, as loud, and as deep as they do on speakers this small), but at more polite listening levels they're too bass-shy for my tastes. I am considering slotting in a sub under the desk, but what I may possibly be after is simple loudness compensation. Does the MA 1 software provide this? I'd like to run the pair through the MA 1 process either way, but if it also provides functionality for boosting bass, particularly at lower volumes via LC, perhaps I could avoid a sub altogether.

If I do go the sub direction, the "easiest" option would be to bring a KH 750 into the mix, but then the 750 doesn't seem to offer much over what the KH 150s can do on their own until you get into deep / sub bass. It does provide another octave or so of extension (which I don't really need based on the music I listen to at the desk), but until you start reaching below 50Hz, the 150s actually show more bass output as well as lower distortion, per Neumann's measurements. I'm not convinced that a KH 750 would be money well spent in this case. Another route would be to go for something like a Monolith 10" V2, which on its own is a better sub (and far less expensive) than the KH 750, but I'd lose out on the easy MA 1 integration. I don't really feel like dropping in a MiniDSP or something and having to work over time to get everything smoothed out manually. I'd much prefer a plug and play solution here.

Any suggestions / experiences would be appreciated.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Related to the topic, I've had the KH 150s on my desktop now for a couple of days. They are remarkable speakers, and so far am I exceedingly pleased with the sound quality they're providing in nearfield use.

However, I use big subs in my primary system and I'm missing some bass output, particularly at lower volumes. The 150s are actually quite stout and get the room shaking surprisingly well as I crank the volume up (the bass drum hits on Tool's Chocolate Chip Trip should not sound as clean, as loud, and as deep as they do on speakers this small), but at more polite listening levels they're too bass-shy for my tastes. I am considering slotting in a sub under the desk, but what I may possibly be after is simple loudness compensation. Does the MA 1 software provide this? I'd like to run the pair through the MA 1 process either way, but if it also provides functionality for boosting bass, particularly at lower volumes via LC, perhaps I could avoid a sub altogether.

If I do go the sub direction, the "easiest" option would be to bring a KH 750 into the mix, but then the 750 doesn't seem to offer much over what the KH 150s can do on their own until you get into deep / sub bass. It does provide another octave or so of extension (which I don't really need based on the music I listen to at the desk), but until you start reaching below 50Hz, the 150s actually show more bass output as well as lower distortion, per Neumann's measurements. I'm not convinced that a KH 750 would be money well spent in this case. Another route would be to go for something like a Monolith 10" V2, which on its own is a better sub (and far less expensive) than the KH 750, but I'd lose out on the easy MA 1 integration. I don't really feel like dropping in a MiniDSP or something and having to work over time to get everything smoothed out manually. I'd much prefer a plug and play solution here.

Any suggestions / experiences would be appreciated.

My suggestion: Make a measuremt on your listening position first to see in which range the bass is deficient. If you have hole somewhere above 39Hz it is not the KH150s "fault", but your room´s influence. In this case it is not the KH150 that is "bass shy", but your room. You can see then what it is you are missing and then find out what solutions could be adequate.

 

[danbei]

Distortion chart shows some 10-15db (at least) more distortion in the area above 70-80Hz,it doesn't matter at 50Hz but as we go up it matters and it matters a lot.

This does not look related to subwoofer integration to me. This is just the fact that KH750 max output capability is lower than that of the KH150 (in they respective frequency range when used as sub+sat). If one wants to use the KH150 at their full output capabilities and with a subwoofer, they need a more capable subwoofer or several KH750. The distortion of the subwoofer(s) will be on par with the KH150's.

A voice reproduced by a sub blares the image,makes it fully localizable,it's like two mouths of different size and location speak the same thing.
Can't have 3D image with conditions like that,there's a gazzilion of tests to show you that,you can start here:

Virtual Acoustic Space | Auditory Neuroscience

auditoryneuroscience.com

I very much agree that if bass content in the 80-100Hz range can be localized, it is a very good point to cross lower than 80 Hz.
Maybe I did not fully understand how to use the tool behind the link, but the stimuli frequency content was around 700Hz. This does not allow to asses if the content produced by a subwoofer can be localized.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Nice to hear, but from reading here on ASR as well on Neumann site it's clear to me that that software is not ready for prime time.

To me it's not about cost but features, reliability and usability as the total cost is in the same ball park.

The current official version does not work with M1/M2 Macs running macOS Ventura. You need to ask Neumann to email you a link for a beta version that kinda works but still is very buggy. This has been going on for at least 2 years. They fix something and with the next update something gets broken….

 

[DJBonoBobo]

BTW, meanwhile they released 1.6.2

 

[enricoclaudio]

BTW, meanwhile they released 1.6.2

View attachment 259135

Nice, finally they made it official. That’s the Beta I got back on 12/23/2022.

 

[Trell]

The current official version does not work with M1/M2 Macs running macOS Ventura. You need to ask Neumann to email you a link for a beta version that kinda works but still is very buggy. This has been going on for at least 2 years. They fix something and with the next update something gets broken….

Neumann has outstanding monitors! Two years ago when I bought a new 2.1 desktop system it was between them and Genelec SAM monitors/subwoofer. Total cost in the same ballpark as for Neumann. Soon after I bought a second Genelec 2.0 system.

As I wanted a hassle free and reliable room EQ running on monitors/subwoofer as well as using Microsoft Windows, Neumann come up short as far as I could read here, as well as on their homepage.

Too bad that Neumann still have so many issues with their software as otherwise they really do have great products.

 

[Sokel]

Maybe I did not fully understand how to use the tool behind the link,

How could you,it's the wrong test ( really have to organize my bookmarks)

Here you go,that's the right one,both tests are good to find and correct problems:

Subwoofer Midrange Test - Crossover Frequency Test

Many sound systems nowadays are built on satellite speakers that have become too small to output the lower midrange frequencies. Some systems will rely on their sub to play these missing frequencies; others won't play these frequencies at all. Use our online test to check how your sound system...

www.audiocheck.net

The Subwoofer Kick Drum Test

Give your subwoofer a kick (or two... or six).

www.audiocheck.net

 

[danbei]

Thank you for the links

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Neumann has outstanding monitors! Two years ago when I bought a new 2.1 desktop system it was between them and Genelec SAM monitors/subwoofer. Total cost in the same ballpark as for Neumann. Soon after I bought a second Genelec 2.0 system.

As I wanted a hassle free and reliable room EQ running on monitors/subwoofer as well as using Microsoft Windows, Neumann come up short as far as I could read here, as well as on their homepage.

Too bad that Neumann still have so many issues with their software as otherwise they really do have great products.

MA1 Software works fine for me (Windows). Sure the user interface is not as self explanatory when loading and saving configuration but once you figured it out it works.
It appears people reporting here are referring to macOS.

 

[mj30250]

My suggestion: Make a measuremt on your listening position first to see in which range the bass is deficient. If you have hole somewhere above 39Hz it is not the KH150s "fault", but your room´s influence. In this case it is not the KH150 that is "bass shy", but your room. You can see then what it is you are missing and then find out what solutions could be adequate.

Agreed, I have no doubt that the room is making a bit of a mess of things. I plan to take measurements by this weekend at the latest. However, I probably should rephrase "bass shy" to "not boosted". As a studio monitor it's doing exactly what it should be doing. In my other setups I run the subs pretty hot, so I'll need to try dialing in a house curve with the 150s to see where that puts things. Does MA 1 offer any loudness compensation in the realm of say, Dynamic EQ? Based on a brief look it seems that the answer is no.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Agreed, I have no doubt that the room is making a bit of a mess of things. I plan to take measurements by this weekend at the latest. However, I probably should rephrase "bass shy" to "not boosted". As a studio monitor it's doing exactly what it should be doing. In my other setups I run the subs pretty hot, so I'll need to try dialing in a house curve with the 150s to see where that puts things. Does MA 1 offer any loudness compensation in the realm of say, Dynamic EQ? Based on a brief look it seems that the answer is no.

No dynamic EQ. You could make several different alignments with different target curves, though, i.e. one flat and one with boosted bass. But you would have to apply them manually via the MA1-software.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Agreed, I have no doubt that the room is making a bit of a mess of things. I plan to take measurements by this weekend at the latest. However, I probably should rephrase "bass shy" to "not boosted". As a studio monitor it's doing exactly what it should be doing. In my other setups I run the subs pretty hot, so I'll need to try dialing in a house curve with the 150s to see where that puts things. Does MA 1 offer any loudness compensation in the realm of say, Dynamic EQ? Based on a brief look it seems that the answer is no.

Correct. It is not as @DJBonoBobo already pointed out.
As the main focus of Neumann and Genelec are studios / music production therefore this feature is not considered as the mastering / mixing is mainly done at pre-calibrated loudness levels. And if one would test other loudness levels the producer / sound engineer would most likely do it directly in the DAW.

 

[mj30250]

No dynamic EQ. You could make several different alignments with different target curves, though, i.e. one flat and one with boosted bass. But you would have to apply them manually via the MA1-software.

Correct. It is not as @DJBonoBobo already pointed out.
As the main focus of Neumann and Genelec are studios / music production therefore this feature is not considered as the mastering / mixing is mainly done at pre-calibrated loudness levels. And if one would test other loudness levels the producer / sound engineer would most likely do it directly in the DAW.

Thanks to you both for confirming. As I indicated earlier, once I have the 150s going fairly loudly (~85dB+ average at the MLP) the bass output is strong and extremely impressive for such small drivers, and not unlike my Sierra LXs (although the LXs have a factory boost built-in starting at around 200Hz that gradually increases down to the roll off). I'm mainly looking for more bass presence and "punch" at lower volumes.

I'm going to take further questions into the dedicated MA 1 topic.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Thanks to you both for confirming. As I indicated earlier, once I have the 150s going fairly loudly (~85dB+ average at the MLP) the bass output is strong and extremely impressive for such small drivers, and not unlike my Sierra LXs (although the LXs have a factory boost built-in starting at around 200Hz that gradually increases down to the roll off). I'm mainly looking for more bass presence and "punch" at lower volumes.

I'm going to take further questions into the dedicated MA 1 topic.

That’s fine. Do you have the possibility of tone control on the DAC or streamer side? That’s what I do. I keep the room calibrated with MA1 and if I need more bass or treble at lower levels or just because I am in the mood I adjust the digital signal.

 

[mj30250]

That’s fine. Do you have the possibility of tone control on the DAC or streamer side? That’s what I do. I keep the room calibrated with MA1 and if I need more bass or treble at lower levels or just because I am in the mood I adjust the digital signal.

I'm using an E70 DAC which has no tone controls.

However....I am streaming through Amazon Music and just poked around through the settings to find that exclusive mode was not set to on...I didn't realize or think about the fact that it resets back to off each time the app closes. For some reason, it was also not checked on under the sound settings in Windows. I switched it back on in both locations, and suddenly the bass improved at all volumes. This is more like it! I'll sit with this for a while and then run through MA 1 hopefully by the weekend.