Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[Awsmone]

100,000 mojos is still a ton of money. It is amazing the amount of money some people have made essentially deceiving others.

Can you explicitly explain the chord deceit you are referring to ?

 

[staticV3]

Can you explicitly explain the chord deceit you are referring to ?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/post-1255854

 

[JohnM-73]

What frustrates me about Mr Watts (and bearing in mind up until quite recently I was a great admirer of his designs, particularly during the DPA/Deltec era) is his choice to stay under the safety umbrella of his adoring crowd over at Head-Fi. He knows he has it good there, any serious rebuttal of his designs will get deleted pretty quick, and it’s an almost perfect circular cymbiosis of manufacturer and fanboys. I guess when you’re onto a winner, why rock the boat… But I’d have had far more respect for him if he’d brave the initial ‘rough ride’ he’d undoubtedly get here (and there’s no doubt about it there are several rude posters here at ASR, and those that think thet know more but haven’t actually designed any DACs themselves etc), and would calmly respond to all questions honestly. If both sides would allow a little mutual respect, perhaps progress would be made. It’d surely help his side of things, as people would see he’s willing to put his professional reputation and beliefs and products to the test at an objectivist forum, and it might reveal a few things about the measurements and design of his gear perhaps we weren’t fully aware of. He could explain in more detail why he doesn’t believe in blind listening tests too. It would take a degree of politeness and a more measured (pun intended!) response from some posters here too… At the end of the day, we’ve had (and often still do) Bruno Putzeys, John Siau, Matthias Carstens, John Yang and so on post here often, not afraid to comment on any facet of measurement regarding their products. Whereas Mr Watts seems content to just post where it’s safe to do so, which is on a subjective ‘audiophile’ forums, ad funded magazine websites, or on videos where he can easily call the narrative, as the interviewer has far less knowledge than himself, so he’s ‘safe’ from any particularly tough lines of questioning. Come on Mr Watts - let’s have you posting here! It’d likely benefit both camps in the long run

 

[Awsmone]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/post-1255854

Sorry but what are the claims of Chord that are deceitful ?

 

[Awsmone]

What frustrates me about Mr Watts (and bearing in mind up until quite recently I was a great admirer of his designs, particularly during the DPA/Deltec era) is his choice to stay under the safety umbrella of his adoring crowd over at Head-Fi. He knows he has it good there, any serious rebuttal of his designs will get deleted pretty quick, and it’s an almost perfect circular cymbiosis of manufacturer and fanboys. I guess when you’re onto a winner, why rock the boat… But I’d have had far more respect for him if he’d brave the initial ‘rough ride’ he’d undoubtedly get here (and there’s no doubt about it there are several rude posters here at ASR, and those that think thet know more but haven’t actually designed any DACs themselves etc), and would calmly respond to all questions honestly. If both sides would allow a little mutual respect, perhaps progress would be made. It’d surely help his side of things, as people would see he’s willing to put his professional reputation and beliefs and products to the test at an objectivist forum, and it might reveal a few things about the measurements and design of his gear perhaps we weren’t fully aware of. He could explain in more detail why he doesn’t believe in blind listening tests too. It would take a degree of politeness and a more measured (pun intended!) response from some posters here too… At the end of the day, we’ve had (and often still do) Bruno Putzeys, John Siau, Matthias Carstens, John Yang and so on post here often, not afraid to comment on any facet of measurement regarding their products. Whereas Mr Watts seems content to just post where it’s safe to do so, which is on a subjective ‘audiophile’ forums, ad funded magazine websites, or on videos where he can easily call the narrative, as the interviewer has far less knowledge than himself, so he’s ‘safe’ from any particularly tough lines of questioning. Come on Mr Watts - let’s have you posting here! It’d likely benefit both camps in the long run

Maybe he prefers a quieter life , rather than being in “death valley” , it’s his choice not yours , he is not exactly a young man and being old myself content can be a good thing

 

[JohnM-73]

Maybe he prefers a quieter life , rather than being in “death valley” , it’s his choice not yours , he is not exactly a young man and being old myself content can be a good thing

I never said it wasn’t his choice.

 

[Music1969]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/post-1255854

You link to Hugo2 review.

Amir's conclusion for Hugo2 portable use:

"As a portable DAC+headphone amplifier, the Hugo 2 has superb performance."

"As a portable product, I can highly recommend the Chord Hugo 2"

 

[Music1969]

his choice to stay under the safety umbrella of his adoring crowd over at Head-Fi.

If it's making him a tonne of $$ why would he change what works?

That would be silly.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Yes but Chord they are also marketed as having extraordinary sound quality, if they were marketed as having unexceptional performance but interesting industrial design I wouldn’t have an issue with them, well apart from the MScaler of course which doesn’t do anything.
Keith

I can't imagine *any* audio product being marketed as having unexceptional performance, unless it's a very basic commodity item. Doesn't everything need to have a "story", no matter how fanciful?

 

[Kremmen]

It maybe of interest to know that when I search for the words "Chord Dave review" in Google's search engine, Amir's review is the third one that appears. Excellent!

 

[AudioSceptic]

Unless something has recently changed, Rob is just a consultant to Chord.

The founder and boss is John Franks. They were well known for making amps long before the DACs.

Edit: I *think* they were one of the first "serious" hi-fi amps to use SMPS.

 

[Jimbob54]

What frustrates me about Mr Watts (and bearing in mind up until quite recently I was a great admirer of his designs, particularly during the DPA/Deltec era) is his choice to stay under the safety umbrella of his adoring crowd over at Head-Fi. He knows he has it good there, any serious rebuttal of his designs will get deleted pretty quick, and it’s an almost perfect circular cymbiosis of manufacturer and fanboys. I guess when you’re onto a winner, why rock the boat… But I’d have had far more respect for him if he’d brave the initial ‘rough ride’ he’d undoubtedly get here (and there’s no doubt about it there are several rude posters here at ASR, and those that think thet know more but haven’t actually designed any DACs themselves etc), and would calmly respond to all questions honestly. If both sides would allow a little mutual respect, perhaps progress would be made. It’d surely help his side of things, as people would see he’s willing to put his professional reputation and beliefs and products to the test at an objectivist forum, and it might reveal a few things about the measurements and design of his gear perhaps we weren’t fully aware of. He could explain in more detail why he doesn’t believe in blind listening tests too. It would take a degree of politeness and a more measured (pun intended!) response from some posters here too… At the end of the day, we’ve had (and often still do) Bruno Putzeys, John Siau, Matthias Carstens, John Yang and so on post here often, not afraid to comment on any facet of measurement regarding their products. Whereas Mr Watts seems content to just post where it’s safe to do so, which is on a subjective ‘audiophile’ forums, ad funded magazine websites, or on videos where he can easily call the narrative, as the interviewer has far less knowledge than himself, so he’s ‘safe’ from any particularly tough lines of questioning. Come on Mr Watts - let’s have you posting here! It’d likely benefit both camps in the long run

The only point him coming on here would he if had either:

1.well documented results of controlled listening tests that showed users could discern and preferred Chord products to other good kit

2.Measurements that showed superior performance in at least one aspect and evidence that level of performance was audible.

You would have thought either of these things would have been shouted from the rooftops years ago, nevermind in the past few months.

 

[Awsmone]

I never said it wasn’t his choice.

Never claimed you did

 

[Awsmone]

I can't imagine *any* audio product being marketed as having unexceptional performance, unless it's a very basic commodity item. Doesn't everything need to have a "story", no matter how fanciful?

What is your definition of unexceptional performance please

 

[DSJR]

I wish people would stop claiming that people buy these crazy money DACs for status.

I know a fair few people who own them. To a man they bought them solely because they genuinely believe they deliver better sound quality.

If you point to the measurements and blind testing they will just say that measurements don't show everything and that blind testing is flawed.

Like the bloke in the video linked to above where he interviews Rob Watts; when it comes to Hi-Fi for some reason they have a blind spot. They do not seem able to distinguish between an independent expert and a salesman.

Mart, I have to defer to your greater range of associates who may well own and love these things. In my local audio salon, they're regarded with varying degrees of reverence and aspiration. They genuinely believe the units are the best because they've been told so (and if they attended a presentation, RW spins a wonderful yarn). Apparently, a chap with Kii Threes bought an M-Scaler to go with the controller and apparently felt the 'sound' was better, so what do I/we know other than the fact he had the money to buy it and listened sighted. maybe one day he'll take it out and find no difference other than a difference in perceived gain...

 

[tedmingo]

I nearly choked when I saw the $14K price. I'll put my RME up against Dave all day long. I paid $700 for it.

 

[AudioSceptic]

What is your definition of unexceptional performance please

*Adequate", "ordinary", "average". No one calls their products those words.

 

[Awsmone]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...review-portable-dac-hp-amp.35812/post-1255854

Having just reviewed Chord Dave website I don’t see any claims that vary much from most high end website , such as “most advanced “ no definition etc

these are usual marketing terms

true deceit requires much more elaborate and deliberate claims

eg lowest distortion ever measured, lowest jitter ever measured etc,

the usual claims by chord etc could be found on hundreds of websites

the fact that’s some reviewers back their claims what ever you believe makes it hard to argue legally whether u like it or not

two independent sites , and I totally admire Amir , they don’t agree with him in some aspects , and let’s be honest it’s a review sample with no know provenance or history shipped to him, it could be a typical example or an atypical example, asked on scientific method it needs more data points than just this one

one possibility however remote is this is a false flag example to denigrate Chord, I admit unlikely but possible, I would prefer before cast doubt on chord distributor example as eg Topping etc

*Adequate", "ordinary", "average". No one calls their products those words.

Those are words , as this is ASR can you give me a technical definition please

 

[Jomungur]

Super Yachts are larger yachts. They have more features and are able to accommodate more people. If you want to have giant parties on Yachts then you must have a super yacht. A DAC is one of the only things where you just spend more money only to spend more money because you get absolutely nothing for it.
If wasting $14,000 to get sub $100 performance just is for you to have confidence in yourself then I really feel bad for you. I believe that most of the people who bought these products will probably be upset when they find out that it performs worse than a $100 product.
Part of this is all about how it sounds and the amazing engineering that goes into it. They are being sold a luxury item that is supposed to be better than everybody else's stuff which is indeed a nice special item to have.
But when instead of the item being better it is actually worse than what everyone else has... you actually just look like a fool.

It would be as if a Lamborghini comes with 120 horsepower. Because people told you that it was fast and these Engineers built it by hand. They told you it has 800 horsepower and that nothing will touch it. But then you got passed by a Corolla on the street and no matter what you did he would just pull away from you. You would undoubtedly feel like a fool

Yes, spot on. People spend money on DACs because they think they improve the sound, plain and simple. Some of my friends have commented on my speakers when visiting. Occasionally someone finds the tube amps exotic because they're not that common these days. No one has ever said anything or cared about the DAC or M Scaler (or Topping for that matter).

DACs are not statement pieces. If they were, you'd see Bose and Bang & Olufson all over standalone DACs.

 

[amirm]

two independent sites , and I totally admire Amir , they don’t agree with him in some aspects , and let’s be honest it’s a review sample with no know provenance or history shipped to him, it could be a typical example or an atypical example, asked on scientific method it needs more data points than just this one

We know none of this in play as it would have been trivial for company to show measurements of their own that are different. Instead we have tacit acknowledgement of a number of issues I have found.