Stereophile's snide editorial on ASR and Amir

[mhardy6647]

Like the old radio. One of my goals in life is to make the world safe for little ol' radios.

We do our part.
It's a cross we bear.

 

[Dial]

You like tuners eh.

 

[mhardy6647]

You like tuners eh.

oh, it gets much, much worse.

I realized something today: I apparently have a "thing" about tuners

So -- our church services, for some reason ;) have been via Zoom for... oh... about a year now. Well, this morning, while sitting upstairs (where I have a little Zoom workstation set up, Altec Santiago sound reinforcement and all) with Mrs. H, chit-chatting with folks before the service, my mind...

hifihaven.org

Yeah, the elegance and cleverness of analog, mono-compatible FM multiplex stereo still amazes and impresses me. There were engineers walking the earth in those days!

But this isn't about tuners, it's about radios!

I actually posted the image I did because of the cute little (dump find) AA5 AM table radio at top left. It works great -- well, OK... it works as great as an AA5 radio can.

 

[Audiofire]

No. It was only an excuse. The real reason is that their solid state development and industry has always been so poor and underdeveloped that they had no other option. The West has been overestimating Soviet power grossly.

Thanks for pointing it out. I wrote my assertion based on some memory. By the time I looked at external sources, you had already corrected it. Only a nuclear weapon would initiate an EMP that is a threat to national security, and the sheer force of the explosion is a bigger threat to electronic systems based on my external sources.

 

[Dial]

But this isn't about tuners, it's about radios!
I have one tuner (Micromega Tuner with a digital coax out-?!-) and a table radio that plays also vinyl & records USB/SD cards.

 

[egellings]

Well, a tuner is almost a radio.

 

[ferrellms]

Not their first attempt. The reality is that their business model is under attack with each review Amir does. People reading the reviews do realize, review after review, that the 99% of what makes a Stereophile review is useless.

Some people say that John Atkinson is an authority. The authority in this context is defined as the power to influence others, especially because of one's commanding manner or one's recognized knowledge about something.
Amir is clearly an authority. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of John Atkinson who has traded the science for marketing.

Stereophile sells advertising for revenue. The number one priority is to sell ads. Number 2 is to boost the industry (to ensure their survival). They very rarely say anything derogatory about an advertiser's (or potential advertiser's) product. And indeed, boosting the high-end audio business means claiming (or at least implying) that more expensive products are better even when they are not. Either of the above goals may not be compatible with objective measurements.

John Atkinson is a real pro and knows his stuff. He is not a complete shill like Robert Hartley. His measurements are not as useful as Amir's, but are a step in the right direction. I do get a kick of the way that he will never diss a product regardless how mediocre or expensive (and he is hip enough to know what is good). He knows that a bad review will mean no more products to review or advertising revenue from the manufacturer.

Amir deserves a big thanks for changing the model!

 

[rwortman]

His measurements are not as useful as Amir's, but are a step in the right direction.

In what way are they less useful? They are pretty comprehensive. I think putting noise and distortions in a single SINAD number is fairly useless.

 

[ferrellms]

In what way are they less useful? They are pretty comprehensive. I think putting noise and distortions in a single SINAD number is fairly useless.

Sorry, I meant to speak only of speakers not anything else. IMHO the electronic and other stuff is just transparent unless broken.

Spinorama and Klippel box as opposed to in-room on-axis frequency response? Come on!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

In what way are they less useful? They are pretty comprehensive. I think putting noise and distortions in a single SINAD number is fairly useless.

Personally, I've never liked the SINAD concept. To me, it is putting apples and oranges into a single bin and effectively ignoring the differences between the two.

Please, THD is THD. Noise is noise. They are different, and one of them being 'high' while the other is 'low' still equates to a 'poor' SINAD number. Why on earth is it too much effort to simply measure THD and graph that, and measure noise and graph that. To me that approach seems a lot less of a hassle than having to explain why the SINAD number is what it is.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Several highly regarded cable companies even explain how their cables effect the sound - Analysis Plus, Audience and Shunyata come to mind. I suspect their engineers have a much better background to discuss these effects than you.

Wow. They explain how their cables affect the sound?

 

[fuzzychaos]

Amir deserves a big thanks for changing the model!

The concern I have is, how sustainable is this model? Most manufacturers are not sending Amir equipment to measure (scared, I guess since their numbers may not be very good), So Amir relies on a few manufacturers that are willing or enthusiastic to send products and the rest are sent in by members of the ASR site. (please correct me if I am wrong). That would be a lot of manufacturers that Amir may never get to measure as the ASR community tends to remain steady around a handful of manufacturers.

(just to be clear, I am not disparaging this site, Amir, or the ASR community with my statements.)

 

[amirm]

The concern I have is, how sustainable is this model? Most manufacturers are not sending Amir equipment to measure (scared, I guess since their numbers may not be very good), So Amir relies on a few manufacturers that are willing or enthusiastic to send products and the rest are sent in by members of the ASR site. (please correct me if I am wrong). That would be a lot of manufacturers that Amir may never get to measure as the ASR community tends to remain steady around a handful of manufacturers.

(just to be clear, I am not disparaging this site, Amir, or the ASR community with my statements.)

If you were to put a system together, don't you think you can do so from what I have tested? And arrive at superb sounding one?

 

[fuzzychaos]

If you were to put a system together, don't you think you can do so from what I have tested? And arrive at superb sounding one?

Yes, and I have. I look to this site before I purchase. I don't always purchase the recommended components, however. For example on my desk right now are the Adam t5v and the Topping d10s...both purchased on your recommendation.

But, there is a lot of stuff out there, some probably really good that you may never get to test, right? I mean wouldn't it be prudent to test as much as you can? If that's not your goal,then cool, but it honestly could limit the usefulness of ASR.

 

[JSmith]

They explain how their cables affect the sound?

Well... for total recall of the system they need to be burnt in for;

JSmith

 

[Audiofire]

I mean wouldn't it be prudent to test as much as you can?

Definitely not, there are a limited amount of good brands and that is what would be prudent to test.

 

[amirm]

But, there is a lot of stuff out there, some probably really good that you may never get to test, right? I mean wouldn't it be prudent to test as much as you can? If that's not your goal,then cool, but it honestly could limit the usefulness of ASR.

In electronics, we have abundances of superb choices. Some that could not be touched by any other device as yet untested. Headphone coverage is also superb as I have tested many high-end ones. This leaves speakers. If you have unlimited budget and want statement speakers, then we have no coverage of those. That is the only hole I see. If you just go one tier below that, then we have great selection to choose from.

 

[fuzzychaos]

Definitely not, there are a limited amount of good brands and that is what would be prudent to test.

That's a broad blanket statement, and demonstrably false. Even in some "bad" brands there are decent items (Schiit for example). And some "good" brands have dogs once in a while (Topping has at least one "no" recommendation). So I will wait to see what each item individually tests, thanks.

 

[mhardy6647]

I have one tuner (Micromega Tuner with a digital coax out-?!-) and a table radio that plays also vinyl & records USB/SD cards.I have an RCA Radiola RC-18 TRF AM receiver in the basement.

Well... for total recall of the system they need to be burnt in for;

JSmith

are those English or metric weeks?

 

[fuzzychaos]

In electronics, we have abundances of superb choices. Some that could not be touched by any other device as yet untested.

Sure, but I would like to see others tested, Mark Levinson, which I believe you own, for example. And honestly, I would like to see brands like McIntosh, Rotel, Naim, Audiolab, Bryston, etc.