Are we over reacting?. I've seen worse things said in print and on a YouTube video. They rely on being subjective to maintain their position in the market and it's not going to change
Are we over reacting?Are we over reacting?. I've seen worse things said in print and on a YouTube video. They rely on being subjective to maintain their position in the market and it's not going to change
Some or Many Steve Hoffman Forums users think ASR is a religious cult as well
"ASR doesn't review equipment with human ears. They use machines."
I think no.Is the Pope Catholic??
I have at times wondered about that myself.I think no.
This post highlights why people don't like ASR. This is very dogmatic. "The Power of Science" is a sentence devoid of critical thought. You're just trusting someone who sounds smart and not questioning the methodology behind the conclusion. One should have objectives and understand the methods to reach them. Subjectivists do that intuitively through trial and error.I don't understand why this type of editorial ruffles so many feathers. Did you surely not expect it?
Consider this: the people criticizing the use of science don't use a privy, don't ride a horse to work, don't practice bloodletting with leeches when they get sick, and don't write with quills. IOW, they use modern science in every single facet of their daily lives, while at the same time criticizing the use of science.
It's so obviously ludicrous!
Every example of criticism of science-based sites (this one or any other one) causes inquirers using the web to redouble their efforts at searching for answers. They look at subjectivist sites, and they look at objectivist sites. Eventually, they are going to make a decision. If you really believe that tests and measurements will cut through the b.s. and give them the information and tools that they need to make decisions, then don't worry. Science and logic will prevail.
OTOH, if you believe that people can get "seduced by the Dark Side" of subjectivism, then perhaps you don't really believe in the power of science after all.
Jim
And they almost never do a valid trial. That’s the end of their process’s relevance to sound waves.Subjectivists do that intuitively through trial and error.
This post highlights why people don't like ASR. This is very dogmatic. "The Power of Science" is a sentence devoid of critical thought. You're just trusting someone who sounds smart and not questioning the methodology behind the conclusion. One should have objectives and understand the methods to reach them. Subjectivists do that intuitively through trial and error.
Most subjectivists aren't shilling products for their gain (like journalists). Most subjectivists just make buying decisions based on personal experience (i.e. subjective listening). They don't value objective measurements highly. Heck subjectivists don't value most opinions highly, they seek indicators like "bright"/"forward"/"smooth"/"warm"/"neutral". Subjectivists see the hobby as a personal journey with pitfalls. They figure out what they don't like and go in the opposite direction.
In my experience "objectivists" are the most annoying people online because they try to force their opinions on others and prove that "A is better than B". And if you like
B over A you're judged for being "stupid" or "wrong" by the objectivists. One can only agree with an objectivist or be degraded. The same is true for religious cults.
This post highlights why people don't like ASR. This is very dogmatic. "The Power of Science" is a sentence devoid of critical thought. You're just trusting someone who sounds smart and not questioning the methodology behind the conclusion. One should have objectives and understand the methods to reach them. Subjectivists do that intuitively through trial and error.
Most subjectivists aren't shilling products for their gain (like journalists). Most subjectivists just make buying decisions based on personal experience (i.e. subjective listening). They don't value objective measurements highly. Heck subjectivists don't value most opinions highly, they seek indicators like "bright"/"forward"/"smooth"/"warm"/"neutral". Subjectivists see the hobby as a personal journey with pitfalls. They figure out what they don't like and go in the opposite direction.
In my experience "objectivists" are the most annoying people online because they try to force their opinions on others and prove that "A is better than B". And if you like
B over A you're judged for being "stupid" or "wrong" by the objectivists. One can only agree with an objectivist or be degraded. The same is true for religious cults.
You sound like a priest! A priest would say that a life isn't worth pursuing without religion.And they almost never do a valid trial. That’s the end of their process’s relevance to sound waves.
Putting it bluntly, they are conflating sound waves with fantasy, and you defend that?
Not a problem with objectivists necessarily, unless objectivists mock the guy who "enjoys his music with 5dB,q2 up at 8khz". Most subjectivists will just shrug it off and think "I like what I like, you do you".Thats BS. If someon enjoys his music with 5dB,q2 up at 8khz. Thats absolutly ok for me, his enjoyment. But when he starts too argue, that this is the best way couse he feels so subjectivly, than he has a problem with objectivists.
Considering where it's coming from, I think Austin's article is quite temperate. I'm sorry if some folks here at ASR are at once, (a) owning the label, "simple-minded objectivists", while at the same time, (b) are offended by it. Too close to the mark maybe?Thoughts after Munich
I'm writing this column on the long flight back to New York City following High End Munich, the big hi-fi show that in regular times takes place each May. Because these are not regular times, this was the first Munich show since 2019. This show was smaller than other recent Munich shows: COVID...www.stereophile.com
I am pretty sure this is a direct comment on the ASR community.
This post is a perfect example of how severely the principles of science and logic can be misunderstood. Jim
You sound like a priest! A priest would say that a life isn't worth pursuing without religion.
No trial is invalid. Saying that one trial is more valid than another is dogmatic.
The goal here is personal musical enjoyment.
Some people reach that goal with fantasy, others use "science".
Some people fail that goal with fantasy, others fail that goal with "science".
Building a Hi-Fi system is a personal journey with pitfalls. If you're happy with your system you should be proud. Don't let people convince you otherwise (on both sides of the fence, due to "scientific" dogma or brand snobbery).