Computer Audiophiles Are Anti-Computer

[amirm]

Data doesn't show anything to someone who can't or won't read it.

I just can't figure out why people go on a public forum, in some cases with their real name like John, with this type of logic.

 

[RayDunzl]

I don't know.

Let's watch somebody make vacuum tubes while we think about it.

Oooh... There's a Part 2

http://www.pandcamp.com/menu_e.html

 

[Sal1950]

How kool was that! Thanks Ray
Talk about hammer mechanics, some small bench tools aren't even fastened down. Check out that manual wire winding lathe jumping all around as he attempts to turn the crank and hold it down with his finger tips at the same time. (6:50) ROTFL
Did you catch the spelling on the graphic cards? LOL
Anyone know what the large coiled device was he put next to and around the tubes was in the final assembly stages?
Maybe AJ can get a couple SET amps based on those triodes to measure paired with his speakers.

 

[RayDunzl]

Anyone know what the large coiled device was

Induction heater.

 

[Sal1950]

Induction heater.

Ah OK, now I understand why it made the plates glow.

 

[RayDunzl]

Making transistors isn't nearly as quaint... Maybe if she were Japanese...

 

[Sal1950]

Man you can't learn this kind of shit at CA.

 

[Sal1950]

Watched her interview, interesting path. I love this chick.

 

[Thomas savage]

I just can't figure out why people go on a public forum, in some cases with their real name like John, with this type of logic.

They have been munching on too much...,

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

But don't you know that this is a sufficient level of measurement competence to reveal "gross" differences - you know the sort of differences that slap-you-in-the-face - the only ones that people here consider of any value, everything else being placebo

You know, these amateur measurements are good enough for people who use 5M USB & HDMI cables - who wouldn't notice any changes except slap-you-in-the-face differences

I think you've misunderstood "people" here, John, and are misrepresenting their positions. We're all in favor of subtle improvements, but we are looking for differences that actually impact our music-listening experience. If it's a deficiency that requires you to stop enjoying the music and concentrate on potential flaws then it doesn't improve the experience, it interrupts it. If it is an unmeasured improvement by the guy selling the breakthrough, it's probably just the usual BS from someone who just crawled up out of the DIY community with a handful of parts and a soldering iron. I can certainly understand why it comforts you to view those who are looking for actual audible differences as dunderheads with bricks for ears, but, as usual, no one has actually taken the positions you're now representing them with.

Tim

 

[John Kenny]

I just can't figure out why people go on a public forum, in some cases with their real name like John, with this type of logic.

"How true and nearsighted they are in that way. They rather look like crooked censors than waiting to see what the data shows.

"Data doesn't show anything to someone who can't or won't read it."

Hilarious, Amir that you should level Ray's comment at me when you are the very one who takes a couple of measurements & declares premature conclusions based on these limited & simplistic measurements.

When you have shown the correlation between your simple measurements & audibility in these devices such as the Regen or the Intona, then your measurements might have some credibility . As it stands your hand-waving exercises consist of lots of bluff & bluster but very little of meaningful substance as regards the audibility of these devices.

I know from my own experiments & experience that both the Regen & Intona make audible differences but can be improved further by attending to the power supply & I'm interested in any measurements which uncover the underlying mechanisms of these audible effects. Unfortunately, that is not your motivation - you are more interested in telling us how good your equipment is.

Someday you will look back at this & see your blindness in all of this but that day has yet to come

 

[John Kenny]

They have been munching on too much...,
View attachment 1860

I don't munch that stuff, I smoke it

 

[Thomas savage]

When a device seems to have no measurable down side and is supported by positive subjective listening experiences but at the same time can't be seen to improve anything from a objective measurement stand point, one could make room for the 'unknown ' and conced said device might have merit.

When a device is clearly shown to exhibit negative measured attributes in context with its intended purposes then you have another situation all together.

Then you have to pontificate on its merits based on a trade off between the known negative and the supposed potential for a positive. That's very much the domain of idle speculation, unless your a fan of..,

 

[Thomas savage]

I don't munch that stuff, I smoke it

Does smoking give a better subjective experience?

Don't try to boil it down for intravenous injection, it does not work...

I just munch, weaning myself off it.

 

[Cosmik]

If the temperature varies, our speakers will change their mechanical characteristics slightly. If we live by measurements, and believe they are unambiguously "objective" and scientific, then we have to accept they will be 'better' at one temperature than the other. If the humidity changes, it will affect the frequency response for better or worse. If we move a chair by half an inch then presumably the characteristics of the room have been made 'better' or 'worse'.

I don't actually pay any attention to these variations at all, and I'll bet no one else here does either, even though they are 'real'. It seems strange to me to ignore these, but to worry about variations that, logically, are not 'real', or at least are minuscule.

I don't worry at all about the 'quality' of my USB cables (I do like to know that the link is asynchronous USB, though) and I don't worry about the PC power supply, type of memory cards I'm using and what software the PC is running while I'm listening. Spending more than a few tens of dollars on a DAC chip in a box would make me curl up with embarrassment if anyone ever found out - I don't care if the SNR is supposed to be 0.3dB better. Surely we can work out the likelihood of these things affecting the sound audibly without even testing them or listening to them.

 

[John Kenny]

I think you've misunderstood "people" here, John, and are misrepresenting their positions. We're all in favor of subtle improvements, but we are looking for differences that actually impact our music-listening experience. If it's a deficiency that requires you to stop enjoying the music and concentrate on potential flaws then it doesn't improve the experience, it interrupts it. If it is an unmeasured improvement by the guy selling the breakthrough, it's probably just the usual BS from someone who just crawled up out of the DIY community with a handful of parts and a soldering iron. I can certainly understand why it comforts you to view those who are looking for actual audible differences as dunderheads with bricks for ears, but, as usual, no one has actually taken the positions you're now representing them with.

Tim

Tim, this is a variation of your normal argument - "you don't understand me or misrepresent what I'm saying"
So just to put your"misrepresenting their position" in perspective here's what Dallas says
"Yes that's correct JK. For me to make a claim, I expect significant differences when something changes. If the difference can only be described as subtlety then it's really no difference at all. I fully expect that I'm just as suceptible to placebo and expectation bias as the next guy. If I rave about something, it really matters. I do rave about the JBL speakers. They are a huge improvement over the other speakers I've owned. I don't rave about USB hubs and the like because honest people know the differences are well with in the margin of error of normal human perception, which is to say it doesn't fucking matter."

We have others using 5m & 10m USB cables that hear no differences - I'm not surprised or to use Dallas's quaint colloquialisms "I'm not fucking surprised"

Maybe, Tim, you are a consumer with the same gross palate for audible improvements as expressed by Dallas. I know you are in your later years but this sort of need to be instantly impressed is indicative of the modern meme in the world - the need to be impressed or move to the next sensation.

In another, more thoughtful & mature meme, instant gratification is not the norm & subtlety can be appreciated - the recognition of this subtlety is what brings a richness to the everyday world & dare I say it an appreciation of aesthetics.

Differences which are less than gross don't "requires you to stop enjoying the music and concentrate on potential flaws" - this is your own rationalisation created out of nowhere with no basis in fact.

Hmm, I don't consider those who are looking for actual audible differences as dunderheads - those people do not inhabit this forum, (bar a few) - this forum is a self-help club of like-minded, insecure individuals who want to assure one another that they are right.

 

[John Kenny]

Does smoking give a better subjective experience?

Don't try to boil it down for intravenous injection, it does not work...

I just munch, weaning myself off it.

Don't be silly, that "Crazy Crack" is for smoking, not injecting - everyone on the street knows that

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I don't munch that stuff, I smoke it

Tim, this is a variation of your normal argument - "you don't understand me or misrepresent what I'm saying"
So just to put your"misrepresenting their position" in perspective here's what Dallas says
"Yes that's correct JK. For me to make a claim, I expect significant differences when something changes. If the difference can only be described as subtlety then it's really no difference at all. I fully expect that I'm just as suceptible to placebo and expectation bias as the next guy. If I rave about something, it really matters. I do rave about the JBL speakers. They are a huge improvement over the other speakers I've owned. I don't rave about USB hubs and the like because honest people know the differences are well with in the margin of error of normal human perception, which is to say it doesn't fucking matter."

We have others using 5m & 10m USB cables that hear no differences - I'm not surprised or to use Dallas's quaint colloquialisms "I'm not fucking surprised"

Maybe, Tim, you are a consumer with the same gross palate for audible improvements as expressed by Dallas. I know you are in your later years but this sort of need to be instantly impressed is indicative of the modern meme in the world - the need to be impressed or move to the next sensation.

In another, more thoughtful & mature meme, instant gratification is not the norm & subtlety can be appreciated - the recognition of this subtlety is what brings a richness to the everyday world & dare I say it an appreciation of aesthetics.

Differences which are less than gross don't "requires you to stop enjoying the music and concentrate on potential flaws" - this is your own rationalisation created out of nowhere with no basis in fact.

Hmm, I don't consider those who are looking for actual audible differences as dunderheads - those people do not inhabit this forum, (bar a few) - this forum is a self-help club of like-minded, insecure individuals who want to assure one another that they are right.

Yes, John, it is my normal argument against your usual bullshit. if you can't see the difference between the comments you've quoted above and how you've characterized them in subsequent posts, including this one, then you're making my point. Thanks.

Tim

 

[John Kenny]

Yes, Tim, I know you want to believe that Dallas is "telling it like it is" - as I said this self-help group helps to allay your insecurities & get validation from & give validation to, others in the group.

 

[Thomas savage]

Tim, this is a variation of your normal argument - "you don't understand me or misrepresent what I'm saying"
So just to put your"misrepresenting their position" in perspective here's what Dallas says
"Yes that's correct JK. For me to make a claim, I expect significant differences when something changes. If the difference can only be described as subtlety then it's really no difference at all. I fully expect that I'm just as suceptible to placebo and expectation bias as the next guy. If I rave about something, it really matters. I do rave about the JBL speakers. They are a huge improvement over the other speakers I've owned. I don't rave about USB hubs and the like because honest people know the differences are well with in the margin of error of normal human perception, which is to say it doesn't fucking matter."

We have others using 5m & 10m USB cables that hear no differences - I'm not surprised or to use Dallas's quaint colloquialisms "I'm not fucking surprised"

Maybe, Tim, you are a consumer with the same gross palate for audible improvements as expressed by Dallas. I know you are in your later years but this sort of need to be instantly impressed is indicative of the modern meme in the world - the need to be impressed or move to the next sensation.

In another, more thoughtful & mature meme, instant gratification is not the norm & subtlety can be appreciated - the recognition of this subtlety is what brings a richness to the everyday world & dare I say it an appreciation of aesthetics.

Differences which are less than gross don't "requires you to stop enjoying the music and concentrate on potential flaws" - this is your own rationalisation created out of nowhere with no basis in fact.

Hmm, I don't consider those who are looking for actual audible differences as dunderheads - those people do not inhabit this forum, (bar a few) - this forum is a self-help club of like-minded, insecure individuals who want to assure one another that they are right.

I can't say I always agree with Tim so won't comment on that other than to say to disagree with Tim is to be wrong, tim has not been wrong since 1976 despite the hand waving and erroneous claims of his ex wives.

Moving on,

All social arenas are on some level ' self help' , we are social animals and for a healthy mind we need regular interaction with others. It's common for like minded people to band together, the idea this trait is exclusive to our members is....,

To the contrary, our members seem to disagree a great deal but what binds them together is a shared mechanism of argument.

Rules of engagement If you like, of course if you feel more comfortable in a social group that has no such ideals, maybe this is not the place for you.

I don't think being right is the motivation for most of our membership either John, more accurate to say they enjoy to debate within a structure that allows the advancement of their knowledge.

That's the majority, though dare I say not exclusively so...