GR-Research "Little Giant Killer 2.0"

[mightycicadalord]

Building a single pair of DIY speakers, vs running an assembly line for building many speakers are totally different things and the cost components are vastly different as well.

For sure, but I have built single run custom speakers for people that visually make those things look like a joke, and performance wise are on different planets. The most elaborate speaker I think I made was a 3 way pa speaker with all three elements horn loaded and it was about 5k for the pair. It utilized high quality drivers from paudio. Baltic birch 3/4" wood construction, speak on termination, driver access panels, etc.. and were left with natural finish.

4500 for grs drivers is the kind of silly stuff this forum is usually apt to point out.

 

[voodooless]

For sure, but I have built single run custom speakers for people that visually make those things look like a joke, and performance wise are on different planets. The most elaborate speaker I think I made was a 3 way pa speaker with all three elements horn loaded and it was about 5k for the pair. It utilized high quality drivers from paudio. Baltic birch 3/4" wood construction, speak on termination, driver access panels, etc.. and were left with natural finish.

Sounds like fun

4500 for grs drivers is the kind of silly stuff this forum is usually apt to point out.

It absolutely is

 

[mhardy6647]

He also said in his video that he paired it with subs and it was amazing as such.

That's like saying (e.g.) that a (British) Ford Cortina has pretty sprightly acceleration when one stuffs a 289 in^3 (US) Ford V8 into it.

I actually knew a kid in high school (a long time ago) who did just that.

 

[Astoneroad]

That's like saying (e.g.) that a (British) Ford Cortina has pretty sprightly acceleration when one stuffs a 289 in^3 (US) Ford V8 into it.

I actually knew a kid in high school (a long time ago) who did just that.

How did it sound?

 

[mhardy6647]

How did it sound?

purposeful
I don't recall seeing any FR data nor waterfall plots, though.

 

[Astoneroad]

purposeful
I don't recall seeing any FR data nor waterfall plots, though.

I think with some EQ... it might have some punch.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

It’s about your comments being directed personally at another member. The terms you mentioned above are used in a general sense and not directed at a specific ASR member. Another words you can attack someone’s statement of fact/opinion, but not the individual directly. I.e., Your statement is full of crap, versus You are full of crap. One is personal one not. But there is always a nice way to say your facts might need to be reassessed or your full of sh_t!

If I missed a post that you feel violates the above. Please go to that post and report it. You will find we are quite fair about this sense of civility.

My comment was general, applicable to a broad category of forum commenters across the entire Internet. No more specific than the comment being responded to. However, thank you for clarifying the standards at play. No insults directed personally at another MEMBER. So am I to assume that attacks directed personally at non-members are acceptable? Serious question seeking a serious answer.

 

[AdamG]

My comment was general, applicable to a broad category of forum commenters across the entire Internet. No more specific than the comment being responded to. However, thank you for clarifying the standards at play. No insults directed personally at another MEMBER. So am I to assume that attacks directed personally at non-members are acceptable? Serious question seeking a serious answer.

While you have a valid point, my task is not to keep world order. We are here to maintain a civil environment for the open and free expression of Science as it relates to Audio in this ASR Forum. Therefore our Charter only extends to Members and participants of conversations within the ASR Forum environment.

 

[kongwee]

His measurements are gated so lack precision. And they are very limited in scope in general.

How much precision do you want? 8361A as benchmark? He can show you a $20 stock crossover measure better than his $230 mod kits. In my ex years working in audiophile shop, my manager was a mod freak. He even bought his shop speaker and mod the hell out of it. He didn't need to test at all. Stock and mod, big different. He used big brand like Multicaps, Vishery.....etc that you have already known. These brand make big different even you have on surface same value components, tolerances and matched. Pretty sure you can create lots of contents just on brands of LCR. In a way you can bite Danny's Sonicap claims.

 

[amirm]

How much precision do you want? 8361A as benchmark?

One question has nothing to do with the other. Gated measurements lack accuracy and usability below a few hundred hertz.

He can show you a $20 stock crossover measure better than his $230 mod kits.

No, he never shows such a thing. His usual approach is to replace a $20 crossover with a $230 and ask you to take it on faith that it is better.

 

[amirm]

These brand make big different even you have on surface same value components, tolerances and matched.

Your repetition of folklore in audio is getting tiring. In this forum, you need to back such claims with proof points. You are wasting our time without it.

 

[kongwee]

One question has nothing to do with the other. Gated measurements lack accuracy and usability below a few hundred hertz.


No, he never shows such a thing. His usual approach is to replace a $20 crossover with a $230 and ask you to take it on faith that it is better.

Your repetition of folklore in audio is getting tiring. In this forum, you need to back such claims with proof points. You are wasting our time without it.

If it is folklore, it is up to your break the $20 crossover than $230 grade components myth. Certainly you have deal with manufacturers that refused to flatted frequency just by crossover. JBL and Wilson Audio only allow you adjust little on their crossover in their flagship models only.

You have already review one of the kit from Danny. Why not break the myth you or someone can achieve better with much cheaper and flattening crossover? Even with miniDSP crossover.

All I have suggest are big topics and mythbusters.

 

[amirm]

If it is folklore, it is up to your break the $20 crossover than $230 grade components myth.

So is that how it works? You say the moon doesn't exist and I am supposed to prove it does? I am going to caution you. Your posts are all empty claims that you seemed to have learned from being a hi-fi salesman. If the quality of them doesn't improve, I will be showing you the door.

 

[Rick Sykora]

I remember this from another thread. You built that speaker in the shttiest possible way so you could try and prove to your cronies here that the speaker sucks. Carry on with your crap.

My standards are the same across all and multiple suppliers. Whether GR or Dayton or other suppliers - if you supply a kit without parts or complete specifications, you get the results as they were supplied. Despite being built to an incomplete supplier specification (EDIT), sometimes the speakers reviewed fairly well. You can whine all you like, but the results do not support and you offer no specific case to support your accusations.

In the GR case, the lack of complete specifications for the X-LS Encore was admitted to publicly on AudioCircle. When Danny clarified acceptable speaker damping, Amir and I complied (with full transparency of the change). My build standard is comparable to what Consumer Reports does when they test a product as supplied. The goal is to impartially test a product under consistent conditions. This is may not be how the supplier or others prefer, but is fair IMO, as this standard also makes sense for a science-based forum.

My speaker builds are done transparently and to scientific standards and are not targeted to please or displease ASR members period. If you have some constructive criticism, please offer it. Otherwise, you are wasting my time and others.

 

[voodooless]

If it is folklore, it is up to your break the $20 crossover than $230 grade components myth. Certainly you have deal with manufacturers that refused to flatted frequency just by crossover. JBL and Wilson Audio only allow you adjust little on their crossover in their flagship models only.

You have already review one of the kit from Danny. Why not break the myth you or someone can achieve better with much cheaper and flattening crossover? Even with miniDSP crossover.

All I have suggest are big topics and mythbusters.

It has been done already: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sover-you-cant-handle-the-truth-part-3.12555/

 

[TheBatsEar]

You have already review one of the kit from Danny. Why not break the myth you or someone can achieve better with much cheaper and flattening crossover? Even with miniDSP crossover.

As posted by @voodooless, we know cheap crossover parts, such as capacitors, perform as well as so called "highend" pricey part.

With MiniDSP it's not even a competition . I suspect you try one! Get a used MiniDSP 2x4HD and a UMIK1 (should be 150€ to 300€) and bend the heck out of any speakers frequency response.

What you can't fix with DSP or filter networks is dispersion. That remains the art of combining drivers with enclosures. It's the core art of speaker designers, as far as i am concerned.

And we are always a bit limited in your measurements. Amir has a Klippel NFS, but most of us don't and can't reach the resolution in measurements. Now worries however, a UMIK1 can be good enough for most.

 

[FrantzM]

As posted by @voodooless, we know cheap crossover parts, such as capacitors, perform as well as so called "highend" pricey part.

With MiniDSP it's not even a competition . I suspect you try one! Get a used MiniDSP 2x4HD and a UMIK1 (should be 150€ to 300€) and bend the heck out of any speakers frequency response.

What you can't fix with DSP or filter networks is dispersion. That remains the art of combining drivers with enclosures. It's the core art of speaker designers, as far as i am concerned.

And we are always a bit limited in your measurements. Amir has a Klippel NFS, but most of us don't and can't reach the resolution in measurements. Now worries however, a UMIK1 can be good enough for most.

+1

The good thing is now we can leave Amir, Erin and others to do (literally) the heavy lifting and take it from there. It has been a long time coming but now we can rely on... reliable data , for speaker purchase, perhaps unprecedented... With those measurements and reviews, we can form a better opinion on speakers. And use the DSP tools to fit these to our environment and add some spices to their sound .

Peace

 

[77SunsetStrip]

While you have a valid point, my task is not to keep world order. We are here to maintain a civil environment for the open and free expression of Science as it relates to Audio in this ASR Forum. Therefore our Charter only extends to Members and participants of conversations within the ASR Forum environment.

Thank you. Other audio forums seem to be able to maintain a higher standard of behavior. Interesting that this forum does not.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Thank you. Other audio forums seem to be able to maintain a higher standard of behavior. Interesting that this forum does not.

 

[xaviescacs]

Thank you. Other audio forums seem to be able to maintain a higher standard of behavior. Interesting that this forum does not.

Well... It depends how you measure it. Spreading lies about how things work and making people believe them is not very respectful either... it's like insulting the whole humanity in some sense. What do you prefer a polite lie or a raw, crude and in-your-face truth? I prefer the truth, or the intention to seek the truth, even if I have to accept some harshness. Calling a lie BS and the author a liar isn't respectful? It's the crude truth after all...