GR-Research "Little Giant Killer 2.0"

[amirm]

So the story is clear on the previous review, Danny first demanded that I listen to stereo to get products from him. I said sure (through Rick) only to have him back out of providing gear. That is just unprofessional.

 

[Spkrdctr]

So you expected a discount. Why? As I said, both parties did not/could no agree upon a common set of expectations from the start.

In no way did Danny try to set up a "common" set of expectations. A common set of expectations for a speaker review has meant for the last 70 years that they send the reviewer a single or pair of speakers to review. They can expect Amir to ship them back undamaged as they usually get sent out again to other reviewers. Making a reviewer, or any reviewer pay for the speakers to review is NOT common at all and never has been. Amir has been taking the high road in that he states that he wasn't happy with what transpired and the review did not happen. He did not go into calling Danny a bunch of names or saying GR Research as a company sucked eggs. I could be wrong (not the first time) but it seems you are arguing/discussing it just to argue/discuss.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

"Expect Danny would lay out a different set of facts."... This is a major complaint regarding Danny (or Paul... or... ) that he lays out opinions in absence of facts. He argues against facts and asks for belief. A fact is something that has proven to be true. A belief doesn't require knowing anything, it actually requires not knowing the facts, the resultant abhorrent void is quickly filled with, in this case, tube connectors.

Any why would Danny's "facts" related to this SPECIFIC situation be any less reliable than Mr. Sykora or Amir? Do you participate in discussions directly? Do you have every email exchange? REPEAT. It takes two to tango, so the continuous drumbeat of all Danny's fault does not wash.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Any why would Danny's "facts" related to this SPECIFIC situation be any less reliable than Mr. Sykora or Amir? Do you participate in discussions directly? Do you have every email exchange? REPEAT. It takes two to tango, so the continuous drumbeat of all Danny's fault does not wash.

Yup, and there it is "trolling". I would respond but you will continue your trolling no matter what is said. I would give you a week off to think about it but I am NOT a moderator, so I will just sit and watch.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Any why would Danny's "facts" related to this SPECIFIC situation be any less reliable than Mr. Sykora or Amir?

To me because they are approachable guys that make sense in their answers. They don't sell me anything.

Look at the first post. What did i get from Danny? He told me obvious and transparent BS so he can sell me his passive filter network. We had this recently with another highly obvious company.

 

[mightycicadalord]

Well, I guess that may depend on one's definition of commercial.

'cause one may purchase things like this:

Orca 3" Wide-Band Speakers Shop— BLUMENSTEIN AUDIO

Birch Plywood : 6-8 weeks. Slightly warm yet extremely detailed Perfectly balanced for home audio. Our best selling speaker for almost 20 years In 2022, Fostex released a new version of their classic 3” driver that sounds significantly better than the older version (with the white dots o

www.blumensteinaudio.com

I was just on that companies website, if people want to some seriously egregious speaker markup, they should check out their models that charge $1900, and $4500 for some very inexpensive GRS woofers, eminence and what I think is a dayton tweeter. Just wow.

 

[TheBatsEar]

I was just on that companies website, if people want to some seriously egregious speaker markup, they should check out their models that charge $1900, and $4500 for some very inexpensive GRS woofers, eminence and what I think is a dayton tweeter. Just wow.

I have no problem with this. Here is a speaker looking like a fine piece of furniture or maybe even art, that's $6000 plus tax.

I'm fine with it. It's the lofty claims that often come with them that ruffle my feathers.

 

[mightycicadalord]

I have no problem with this. Here is a speaker looking like a fine piece of furniture or maybe even art, that's $6000 plus tax.

I'm fine with it. It's the lofty claims that often come with them that ruffle my feathers.

Those four drivers models do not look like fine wood pieces, it's just bare ply, and low ply count at that. Look at Troels for how to make ply look good (use good ply mostly, not lowes stuff). Nearly $4000 in labor to assemble the cabinets? Def not reasonable to me in any universe.

 

[77SunsetStrip]

Yup, and there it is "trolling". I would respond but you will continue your trolling no matter what is said. I would give you a week off to think about it but I am NOT a moderator, so I will just sit and watch.

Thank you. Typical, resort to "trolling" as a response when sticking to facts is inconvenient for your.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Thank you. Typical, resort to "trolling" as a response when sticking to facts is inconvenient for your.

Have to agree. If this is trolling for him, he must have had a sheltered childhood.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Some more clarification from my records...

1. Amir contracted me to build the GR X-LS Encore(s). After I ordered and built the first very basic one, we discussed using the more premium parts for the second one. As the build thread mentions, I had minimal contact with Danny except for requesting a missing capacitor for the crossover. Later Danny also wrote with clarification on the damping material alternatives and, after checking with Amir, he agreed to have me add.
2. The basic unit got shipped, measured and Amir's review even recommended it (even without rounded edges, upgraded caps, tube connectors and No-Rez damping). I supplied Danny with a summary of suggested improvements to the speaker and he thanked me.
3. Since building the more premium speaker was hundreds of dollars more, I approached Danny to supply a sample. He offered to supply a premium pair that he built. Danny agreed to do this in late July 2020 but by early August had reneged citing Amir's room inadequacies and mono listening. Although Amir conceded to listen to the stereo pair, Danny had made up his mind. Despite his reservations, he still agreed to help supply the upgrade parts for my premium build. I did them all except for tube connectors as the box already had a terminal cup installed. A few more rounds ensued as the crossover parts changed midstream, but the premium speaker was eventually completed and shipped to Amir.

At this stage, Danny had already admitted that the premium speaker would likely measure the same as the basic one. So, there was not expectation from either Amir or Danny of a different result and so the second review was shelved. Amir paid me in full and that was the extent of my involvement.

So despite some conjecture over lack of agreement from the start, the dialog was very cordial initially. Unfortunately, differences emerged along the way. Nobody is entirely impartial ofc, but I can prove all I have stated to date. All of the major points can be confirmed from 2020 postings here and on AudioCircle.

 

[Astoneroad]

Some more clarification from my records...

1. Amir contracted me to build the GR X-LS Encore(s). After I ordered and built the first very basic one, we discussed using the more premium parts for the second one. As the build thread mentions, I had minimal contact with Danny except for requesting a missing capacitor for the crossover. Later he also wrote with clarification on the damping material and, after checking with Amir, he agreed to add.
2. The basic unit got shipped, measured and Amir's review even recommended it (even without rounded edges, upgraded caps, tube connectors and No-Rez damping). I supplied Danny with a summary of suggested improvements to the speaker and he thanked me.
3. Since building the more premium speaker was hundreds of dollars more, I approached Danny to supply a sample. He offered to supply a premium pair that he built. Danny agreed to do this in late July 2020 but by early August had reneged citing Amir's room inadequacies and mono listening. Although Amir conceded to listen to the stereo pair, Danny had made up his mind. Despite his reservations, he still agreed to help supply the upgrade parts for my premium build. I did them all except for tube connectors as the box already had a terminal cup installed. A few more rounds ensued as the crossover parts changed midstream, but the premium speaker was eventually completed and shipped to Amir.

At this stage, Danny had already admitted that the premium speaker would likely measure the same as the basic one. So, there was not expectation from either Amir or Danny of a different result and so the second review was shelved. Amir paid me in full and that was the extent of my involvement.

So despite some conjecture over lack of agreement from the start, the dialog was very cordial initially. Unfortunately, differences emerged along the way. Nobody is entirely impartial ofc, but I can prove all I have stated to date. All of the major points can be confirmed from 2020 postings here and on AudioCircle.

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[dougi]

that... thing... between ca. 5 and 8 kHz... looks about right for Fostex 'fullrange' drivers.
Many of them do tend towards the tizzy.

I've now put in notch filters. Didn't bother with a resistor as in practice the depth was still limited. One needs a tweak but the left is better. Note the peaks are a bit different between the drivers (6.5 vs 6.8 kHz). A bit concerned about the possible current through the inductor (44uH, 0.16 DC ohms, AWG22 wire) but should be OK for practical music and volumes.

Plots at 0.5m ungated and at my study LP below. Yeah still horrific, but partly due to the room reflections. Look at the bass though, easily goes into the 40s or lower in room. Yes boosted a lot, but effectively just for baffle step, fine at normal volumes. Note I increased the bass by 2dB between the "no notch" and "notch plots, as you can tell.

One of the problems with passive baffle step correction with single drivers is the high impedances at high frequencies. To get similar correction to what I have here, the impedance goes to 20 ohms+ at frequencies greater than 1.5kHz, unless the circuit is complicated further. I imagine that is not ideal for some (valve?) amps.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I don't know why, but this thread made me have a flashback to the 60s Radio Shack "Baffle Pak" speakers where the cardboard box was the baffle. I know I bought at least one of them.

 

[mhardy6647]

I don't know why, but this thread made me have a flashback to the 60s Radio Shack "Baffle Pak" speakers where the cardboard box was the baffle. I know I bought at least one of them.

View attachment 198814

Well -- I mean -- R/S did sell various versions of Fostex's FE-103 for decades.
I... umm... uhh... I might have a pair or two here someplace. In reserve, you know. Just a pair or two... or eight (pair)... or so... maybe a few more ... umm... plus a pair of R/S "Solo 103" loudspeakers...

source: https://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/flipbook/1967_radioshack_catalog.html

ahem

source: https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Electronics-Illustrated/Electronics-Illustrated-1965-11.pdf

(yeah, yeah... I know... I need a hobby, or somethin'...)

 

[kongwee]

Those four drivers models do not look like fine wood pieces, it's just bare ply, and low ply count at that. Look at Troels for how to make ply look good (use good ply mostly, not lowes stuff). Nearly $4000 in labor to assemble the cabinets? Def not reasonable to me in any universe.

I came across some article some plywood is harder to work than MDF. That increase the labour cost. But I am not into this area, just for knowledge.

 

[mightycicadalord]

I came across some article some plywood is harder to work than MDF. That increase the labour cost. But I am not into this area, just for knowledge.

There isn't remotely $4,000 in labor in these speakers and there's nothing harder about plywood that would justify it. If anything I prefer to work with good baltic birch ply over MDF any day. MDF can really gunk up tools.

 

[kongwee]

There isn't remotely $4,000 in labor in these speakers and there's nothing harder about plywood that would justify it. If anything I prefer to work with good baltic birch ply over MDF any day. MDF can really gunk up tools.

I dunno labour cost may $100 more to add on cost, that will reflect to $1000 to selling price. Minus 500, if the product have high margin. If you watch Danny clip regularly, you will understand how speaker goes way as a finished product. It is not one or two, but many companies are doing it.

 

[mightycicadalord]

I dunno labour cost may $100 more to add on cost, that will reflect to $1000 to selling price. Minus 500, if the product have high margin. If you watch Danny clip regularly, you will understand how speaker goes way as a finished product. It is not one or two, but many companies are doing it.

I do know. I've built a TON of speakers over the course of my life. Watch Danny regularly? Yeah I'm no masochist.

 

[kongwee]

I do know. I've built a TON of speakers over the course of my life. Watch Danny regularly? Yeah I'm no masochist.

Yup, I said again you can see how mark up all opening of all these speakers. I watch a lot of influencers video too...... but not ASR product reviews as it is faster to read texts than going through the whole clips.