GR-Research "Little Giant Killer 2.0"

[amirm]

Why does he need to go through this trouble where being an influencer is a lots easier?

Being an influencer is not easy. You have to live up to your reputation. Refusing to let us test his speakers impacts that image and online brand.

 

[Spkrdctr]

I've gotta say -- using DSP on a "design" like this one (i.e., a FR driver in a little box) would be (i.e., could be) a great acid test of the two dueling approaches to the same basic challenge. Wouldn't it be fun to compare (both objectively and subjectively*) a filter/contour networked morph vs. a DSP'd, network-free morph?

84 dB sensitivity!?!
___________________
* sorry! A leopard cannae change its spots, y'know?

Is that $200 worth of parts connected to a $40 driver?

 

[Spkrdctr]

There are more sensitive 3" drivers (although 4" is probably more practical... boxes full of sensitive 4" "Fullrange" drivers here).

Hoffman's Iron Law applies, but... sure, you can. You just can't play loud and low (frequencies).



The famous, or perhaps infamous, PartsExpress (Pioneer OEM) 269-469 4-inch 69-cent wonder. A remarkably pleasant little "fullrange" driver that's also sensitive enough for 'fleapower' amplification.

I believe I tested those! Before the smoke comes out they will go loud, just not low. At low frequencies they sound like a buzzer as the voice coil rams the backing plate. Such fond memories!

 

[Spkrdctr]

Well, I guess that may depend on one's definition of commercial.

'cause one may purchase things like this:

Orca 3" Wide-Band Speakers Shop— BLUMENSTEIN AUDIO

Birch Plywood : 6-8 weeks. Slightly warm yet extremely detailed Perfectly balanced for home audio. Our best selling speaker for almost 20 years In 2022, Fostex released a new version of their classic 3” driver that sounds significantly better than the older version (with the white dots o

www.blumensteinaudio.com

or this:

Fostex P800E DIY Kanspea 3" Full Range Speaker Kit - PAIR: Madisound Speaker Components, Inc.

Fostex 3" Full Range Speaker Kit Pair. Complete kit with pre-assembled cabinets.

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

(or the 4 inch morph)

Fostex P1000E DIY Kanspea 4" Full Range Speaker Kit - PAIR: Madisound Speaker Components, Inc.

Fostex 4" Full Range Speaker Kit Pair. Complete kit with pre-assembled cabinets.

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

In either case, just add DSP -- if one wishes.
Not sure adding a tweeter to the FE83 or the FE103 would be a good idea, though.

As a real man, I would be ashamed to have anyone see that setup in my house. Flea sized speakers on big stands. Those speakers just scream my owner doesn't have a man card. But, that is just my opinion. Amir has tested some very inexpensive $200 to $300 a pair tower speakers that will blow these away. Plus you will have your man card back. A win/win!

 

[kongwee]

Again, I am talking about speakers here, not the mod business he runs.


Finished speaker is $1,100 so quite expensive and way outside of any curiosity I have about his products.

You have to build it yourself to save cost. You have to pay for his finished product. He is not obligated to send any for reviews.

The heck you talking about? If I contact Harman and they don't want to send me a sample, they don't insult me and the membership here. If you think this is a good business practice for GR Research, then you don't know anything about business.

You are Harman client, why insult you? In other words, Danny doesn't need business from reviewers. He can afford to make his comments.

In the end of the day buy his finished speaker if you wanna review them.

How good is his business practice, not my concern. I don't run his business. I just like what he does on mods. Probably I won't buy anything from him as there are options out there.

 

[solderdude]

Danny doesn't need business from reviewers. He can afford to make his comments.

It's like a cook judging his own food.
There is nothing impartial and objective about it.
When one is sure it is the best there is (or he can do) at this price for a DIY thingy then it should pass scrutiny and comparison with similar priced speakers that serve the same purpose. When it does and it surpasses similar priced/goal speakers he could increase sales for sure.

However, when it would be compared to much more expensive and bigger speakers or certain 'standards' it would, most likely, not do well.

 

[kongwee]

It's like a cook judging his own food.
There is nothing impartial and objective about it.
When one is sure it is the best there is (or he can do) at this price for a DIY thingy then it should pass scrutiny and comparison with similar priced speakers that serve the same purpose. When it does and it surpasses similar priced/goal speakers he could increase sales for sure.

However, when it would be compared to much more expensive and bigger speakers or certain 'standards' it would, most likely, not do well.

Buy his speaker, you can be objective anytime anywhere. To me, there are options. Again I just like to watch his clips. Enjoyment w/o buying anything from him.

 

[solderdude]

Nope... I won't buy this speaker/kit. I have no use for this size speaker nor do I review/test speakers.
I have no opinion about it nor do I desire to either.

Maybe, some day, someone sends on in to Amir or Erin and it gets scrutinized.
Makes more sense to me than trusting the designer/seller which is my point.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Looks as though GR just needs something to sell. He is struggling with supply chain issues worsened by his use of drivers that are unique to him. However, the upsell model must work for him. Let's take a look....

• The bare bones kit is $318 (maintaining some semblance of being a DIY value)
• You want a cabinet? Add $100 for a flat pack (not bad, but you want it to look better?)
• That will be at least $450 for a pair of veneered cabinets. Now your total is now at least $768 before shipping!
• Hang on, maybe you did not have the skills or equipment to build them. Please remit $1038 (not $1014 as you really needed that bypass cap)

For the less wary, you may have now paid close to $1100 for a pair of LGKs. Never mind, you could have had something much better like Technics SB-C600s for $1000 or KEF LS50 Metas for $1600. Forgetting that you still need an amplifier and so you passed up several nice small active speakers that have better low end and take less space!

So, while already mentioned, the crossover portion of the LGK bare bones appears to be about $218. Personally, would spend more on a better driver and not have to use big expensive inductors to compensate for a driver that lacks bass output. Take note that the published LGK response graph starts at 200 Hz.

Save your money and do not pay for an underperforming $40 driver that will not be saved by a $30 tube connector!

 

[TheBatsEar]

do not pay for an underperforming $40 driver

 

[kongwee]

For the less wary, you may have now paid close to $1100 for a pair of LGKs. Never mind, you could have had something much better like Technics SB-C600s for $1000 or KEF LS50 Metas for $1600. Forgetting that you still need an amplifier and so you passed up several nice small active speakers that have better low end and take less space!

I have DSP coaxial speaker, but passive I have my reserve. Price like $1600 I can get something from china with bit more which clone a $6000 price tag classic cabinet baffles with all the audiophiles components. That another story.

 

[FrantzM]

Full Range drivers is to me an oxymoron. Such should be only used in headphones.
On top of that, they are usually expensive nonsenses.
I wonder what those people who buy them find in these to be enticing.
Then again, audiophiles buy $140,000.00 amplifers with this kind of THD
Picture courtesy of Stereophile:

According to that graph, this amp reaches over 10% of THD around 30 watts..
Ok wrong thread for amplifier measurements but I am sure you got my point.
another money grab...

Peace.

 

[mhardy6647]

As a real man, I would be ashamed to have anyone see that setup in my house. Flea sized speakers on big stands. Those speakers just scream my owner doesn't have a man card. But, that is just my opinion. Amir has tested some very inexpensive $200 to $300 a pair tower speakers that will blow these away. Plus you will have your man card back. A win/win!

Dude. Thanks for thinkin' of me.
umm... I'm good.


(the early days of the Frankenaltecs, when they still carried a pair of Altec 604E Duplexes)
PS Let's not talk about how much neater/better the room looked 6 or 7 years ago, OK?

 

[mhardy6647]

Is that $200 worth of parts connected to a $40 driver?

Yeah, except I don't think there're $200 worth of parts absent the driver.
Indeed, I don't know whether there's BSC and/or a Zobel network added, or if it's just a Fostex driver in a pretty (de gustibus...) box.
If the latter, the little Fostex kits are definitely a better value.

 

[kongwee]

Full Range drivers is to me an oxymoron. Such should be only used in headphones.
On top of that, they are usually expensive nonsenses.
I wonder what those people who buy them find in these to be enticing.
Then again, audiophiles buy $140,000.00 amplifers with this kind of THD
Picture courtesy of Stereophile:

According to that graph, this amp reaches over 10% of THD around 30 watts..
Ok wrong thread for amplifier measurements but I am sure you got my point.
another money grab...

Peace.

300B Ongaku? It is my dream for 3rd or 4th setup. VERY VERY MUSICAL™.

 

[jhaider]

I just like what he does on mods.

Why?

Full Range drivers is to me an oxymoron. Such should be only used in headphones.

And even then, full range drivers usually suck the life out of the music without active EQ from a processor such as miniDSP!

 

[77SunsetStrip]

Trying to be objective, there might be past history between Danny and ASR coloring attitudes on both sides. GR Research was the target of harsh and insulting commentary veiled as "science" on ASR long before any kind of response from Danny. Probably many that would have never found GR Research without reading ASR commentary.

The X-LS Encore situation appeared to start as a good faith effort by both parties to discuss measurements and tone done innuendo and insults. Unfortunately, did not appear either party started from a reasonable common understanding of expectations. From the outside it seemed the build process went downhill fast with the builder expecting Danny to provide constant hand holding. Danny expected the builder to have at least basic DIY experience and the ability to follow basic guidance provided on the GR Research web site. In the end, a positive evaluation from Amir overshadowed a bit by the less than smooth build process.

Seems the X-LS Encore situation only provided fodder for opposing camps to dig their heels in. See, there is the proof Danny is a charlatan. See, there is the proof that ASR intended to make Danny look bad. Neither camp is right. Neither view is productive. Back to the low road, hurl insults and innuendo or find any excuse to claim being insulted.

Vinyl Attack posted a video recently about civil and respectful discourse related to the Audio Hobby. It is very insightful, worth a look, then reflect a bit on your own behavior.

 

[TheBatsEar]

And even then, full range drivers usually suck the life out of the music without active EQ from a processor such as miniDSP!

Gentlemen, it is my experience that almost nothing ever sucks the life out of music.
You could play a good tune through a walkie-talkie and still enjoy the experience very much.

 

[Astoneroad]

Gentlemen, it is my experience that almost nothing ever sucks the life out of music.
You could play a good tune through a walkie-talkie and still enjoy the experience very much.

Gentlepersons, it is my experience that given the right mix of psychotropics, you wouldn't even need the walkie talkie... the source for the tune is a pristine self mastered version... and the EQ is always... transcendent... you'll enjoy the experience very much.

 

[kongwee]

Why?

Just love that he does. Opening up all the speaker.