Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[Spocko]

Tesla's V3 Superchargers charge at 250kW. To charge a 74kWh battery pack from 12% to 80% takes 12 minutes. That adds about 200 miles of range on the highway. Which is to say, for every 3 hours driving, you'd spend 12 minutes charging, not an hour.

Electrify America's 150kW fast chargers are definitely under rated because plugging in my Kia EV6 at 16%, I get 170-180 kW until around 55% then it tapers down to 160kW. In 10 minutes on this fast charger I went from 16% to 56% (max range of 275 miles) adding around 115 miles. This is definitely acceptable because I know when I get home, plugging in will take me to 80% in about 2 hours (15% per hour on the EV6).

So as far as EV infrastructure needs in Orange County, CA, EV6 owners definitely have a car they can live with as a primary commuter even if going 100 miles per day. More and more EA fast chargers are being added to more and more Target locations, with strip malls and bank parking lots getting them as well.

 

[Spocko]

When the Berlin and Texas factories ramp up, delivery times will get shorter and prices will come down again.

As long as there's a 5+ month backlog Tesla need not adjust their prices downward for existing models - instead, they can sell smaller battery capacity models for less (4680 models with only 225 miles of range would be cheaper and significantly lighter too). So technically, prices will come down due to these newer shorter range models while prices for the top range will stay up there until demand begins to falter. Personally, I think paying over $60K for a Model Y is simply outrageous without the $7,500 incentive; I understand those wanting the Performance Y because there is no substitute performance at this price, but this is still quite a premium for street racing moms. The rough ride and budget feeling interior is disappointing for such a premium priced car.

 

[samsa]

As long as there's a 5+ month backlog Tesla need not adjust their prices downward for existing models - instead, they can sell smaller battery capacity models for less (4680 models with only 225 miles of range would be cheaper and significantly lighter too). So technically, prices will come down due to these newer shorter range models while prices for the top range will stay up there until demand begins to falter. Personally, I think paying over $60K for a Model Y is simply outrageous without the $7,500 incentive; I understand those wanting the Performance Y because there is no substitute performance at this price, but this is still quite a premium for street racing moms. The rough ride and budget feeling interior is disappointing for such a premium priced car.

When I bought mine a year ago, it was $10k cheaper and I only had to wait 4 weeks for delivery.

Tesla seems willing to continuously tweak their prices (up or down) in response to changes in demand/supply --- one advantage (for them) of not having a dealership network to contend with.

As to whether $60k is too expensive, that's not a debate I'd want to wade into on an audiophile forum.

 

[acetogen]

Cobalt, being an odd-numbered proton count, is of course less common than its adjacent elements.

Be that as it may, both cobalt and nickel can be very toxic when they are in organic form. Neither holds a candle to hexavalent chromium, though, and in metal form, both cobalt and nickel are very hard to get into a biological process. It's the organic side you have to worry about. None of them, or iron (which is also toxic in organic form in excess) are things you want lots and lots of in organic form.

Ironically, copper is right up there, too, but we handle copper wire all the time. This is an interesting (but not entirely definitive) read:

Toxicity of mercury, copper, nickel, lead, and cobalt to embryos and larvae of zebrafish,Brachydanio rerio - Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology

The toxicity of mercury (HgCl2), copper (CuCl2: 5 H2O), nickel (NiSO4: 6 H2O), lead (Pb(CH3COO)2: 3 H2O) and cobalt (CoCl2: 6 H2O) was studied under standardized conditions in embryos and larvae of the zebrafish,Brachydanio rerio. Exposures were started at the blastula stage (2–4 h after...

link.springer.com

The results are presented in the abstract, fortunately, thanks to the runaway monetization of all scientific publications.

To clarify, Cr(VI) does not form organometallic compounds, it lacks electrons in the d shell. It is toxic because it is a strong oxidizer. We all did a simple alcohol oxidation in sophomore OC either with K2CrO4 or KMnO4 (the former is cleaner but more expensive). Also there is an organometallic compound of Co that is essential for human/animal health: cyanocobalamin (vitamin B12). Iron metabolism is tightly controlled by mechanism of excretion and storage (Ferritin) in most organisms. Heme is the sole organometallic compound of Fe that is made and used by all organisms. FeS clusters are not organic compounds.

 

[j_j]

To clarify, Cr(VI) does not form organometallic compounds, it lacks electrons in the d shell. It is toxic because it is a strong oxidizer.

More to the point, it destroys organic compounds.

 

[rdenney]

Assuming "drive up and charge" is always what you get to do.

And assuming the size of such a vehicle fulfills your requirements.

Rick “yes, it’s coming and yes, it will subject many to deprivation of one sort or another” Denney

 

[j_j]

And assuming the size of such a vehicle fulfills your requirements.

Rick “yes, it’s coming and yes, it will subject many to deprivation of one sort or another” Denney

We shall see.

 

[rkbates]

I'm currently commissioning an 8 MWhr battery installation and it 'loses' about 1% energy per day when not in use. Do any current EV users notice a similar loss, or is it just something you'd never notice if you use your EV every day?

 

[samsa]

'm currently commissioning an 8 MWhr battery installation and it 'loses' about 1% energy per day when not in use. Do any current EV users notice a similar loss, or is it just something you'd never notice if you use your EV every day?

1%/day sounds about right.

Could be worse in extremely cold or extremely hot environments, where the car's thermal management needs to warm/cool the battery to keep its temperature in the desired range.

 

[Doodski]

1%/day sounds about right.

Could be worse in extremely cold or extremely hot environments, where the car's thermal management needs to warm/cool the battery to keep its temperature in the desired range.

I have seen Tesla cars out in -30C (-22F) weather and they don't seem to have any issue navigating snow and ice in extreme cold. I wonder how much power is required to maintain the battery temperature for operation. I also see Proterra city public transit electric buses out in that weather too and they manage the icy roads well and have electric baseboard heaters inside to warm the bus. My only complaint is the manufacturer over did the suspension and they ride very very rough.

 

[samsa]

I have seen Tesla cars out in -30C (-22F) weather and they don't seem to have any issue navigating snow and ice in extreme cold. I wonder how much power is required to maintain the battery temperature for operation. I also see Proterra city public transit electric buses out in that weather too and they manage the icy roads well and have electric baseboard heaters inside to warm the bus. My only complaint is the manufacturer over did the suspension and they ride very very rough.

The question was about loss-of-charge when parked.

I know that excessively high temperatures are bad for the battery, and thermal management is supposed to keep the battery temperature below some level. Temperature that are too low are a problem for charging the battery. That includes regen braking. Below about 10℃ (50℉), the "Regen braking reduced" warning comes on when you start driving (without 'preconditioning'). It goes away once the battery has warmed up.

 

[samsa]

Temperature that are too low are a problem for charging the battery. That includes regen braking. Below about 10℃ (50℉), the "Regen braking reduced" warning comes on when you start driving (without 'preconditioning'). It goes away once the battery has warmed up.

On that note, in response to @j_j

Assuming "drive up and charge" is always what you get to do.

Not only does Navigation tell you, in real-time, how many open stalls there are at the SuperChargers along your route, but if you set one of those SuperChargers as a (waypoint) destination, then the car will precondition the battery so that it is at the optimal temperature for fast-charging when you arrive at the SuperCharger.

 

[Laserjock]

Do these charging stations tax the electricity for the upkeep of roads etc like petroleum based products get taxed?

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

I'm currently commissioning an 8 MWhr battery installation and it 'loses' about 1% energy per day when not in use. Do any current EV users notice a similar loss, or is it just something you'd never notice if you use your EV every day?

My Tesla loses about 1% every 2 days parked at the airport in a typical UK winter.

 

[rdenney]

Do these charging stations tax the electricity for the upkeep of roads etc like petroleum based products get taxed?

Taxes are a big issue. But expect road taxes to be assessed based on mileage in the future, not as part of gasoline purchases. Congress has already instructed the Department of Transportation to investigate it (using a pilot program, and this is just the next step in ongoing investigation) in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.

Just "prediction: it's coming" A. Guy

 

[rkbates]

My Tesla loses about 1% every 2 days parked at the airport in a typical UK winter.

My next car will be an EV so it won't change my reasons for buying, but would you tolerate a car that leaked half a litre of petrol every day? Maybe you would if it just evaporated and you didn't notice it disappearing.

 

[pseudoid]

would you tolerate a car that leaked half a litre of petrol every day?

I've had a neighbor doing this &*%$ for well over a friggin' year!
Some dude with an older RangeRover kept leaking oil, both on the street and in the alley that are only 8 blocks from the Bay.
February 2021, I made him aware that he was leaking oil that ends up in the Bay. He replied (mock-shock) he will get it repaired.
Months passed and his car kept leaking oil and rare rains drained it directly to the Bay.
June 2021, I asked his HOA to do something about it. They pretended they were concerned.
August 2021, I left a phone message to the local City Hall about the continual oil leak. Answering machine musta caught the Covid and died.
September 2021, I contacted the local FD/PD. They were "understanding"!
October 2021, I contacted SurfRiderFoundation. They asked me for a "donation".
November 2021, In a foolish move, I contacted the Coastal Commission. They only deal with spills that are measured in barrels.
December 2021, I got in his face (w/social distancing) about his oil spill. He looked me directly in eye and BS'd me that it was" just a water leak"

What else can someone do?
January 2022, I got my mate to post some photos of dude's RR oil-patches around the neighborhood @NextDoor.com
March 2022, he be not leakin' no moh! Me ... while I drive around in a 6.0Liter ICE...

 

[Doodski]

SMR's or small module reactors are coming to Canada. The provinces of Saskatchewan, Ontario, New Brunswick and Alberta have released their strategic plan to expand the nuclear industry through the development of small modular reactors. Each reactor can power about 300,000 homes and will provide the additional electrical power for EV's and population growth.

 

[pseudoid]

SMR's or small module reactors are coming to Canada.

Nothing could be better for an audiophile. The power they generate are measured in MegaWatts!
Other such "power amplifiers" include MSRs (below), MSFRs, AHTRs, GFRs ,SCWRs, and VHTRs that are in the pipelines... if only time was not a human construct.

 

[Doodski]

I've had a neighbor doing this &*%$ for well over a friggin' year!
Some dude with an older RangeRover kept leaking oil, both on the street and in the alley that are only 8 blocks from the Bay.
February 2021, I made him aware that he was leaking oil that ends up in the Bay. He replied (mock-shock) he will get it repaired.
Months passed and his car kept leaking oil and rare rains drained it directly to the Bay.
June 2021, I asked his HOA to do something about it. They pretended they were concerned.
August 2021, I left a phone message to the local City Hall about the continual oil leak. Answering machine musta caught the Covid and died.
September 2021, I contacted the local FD/PD. They were "understanding"!
October 2021, I contacted SurfRiderFoundation. They asked me for a "donation".
November 2021, In a foolish move, I contacted the Coastal Commission. They only deal with spills that are measured in barrels.
December 2021, I got in his face (w/social distancing) about his oil spill. He looked me directly in eye and BS'd me that it was" just a water leak"

What else can someone do?
January 2022, I got my mate to post some photos of dude's RR oil-patches around the neighborhood @NextDoor.com
March 2022, he be not leakin' no moh! Me ... while I drive around in a 6.0Liter ICE...

I googled this topic a bit because it is related to EVs in that ICE's leak oil and EVs don't. I have no idea if there is a regulatory body or gov department that would manage such a car leaking oil into the storm drain. Your neighbor obviously could not care less and does not want the expense of repairing his vehicle.

"Used motor oil is the largest single source of oil pollution in our lakes, streams, and rivers. Americans spill 180 million gallons of used oil each year into our waters."