OP
- Thread Starter
- #61
Should I return the HS5 to guitar center and get the HS7 to test? Or do we already know what that one does?
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Yamaha HS5 Powered Monitor Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #62
That, is standardized as I explained in the review. Soundstage uses 90 dB at 2 meter which is what I used. That translates into 106 dB at 1/3 meter which is what I tested at (soundstage uses 96 dB at 1 meter). So all distortion measurements are comparable to what soundstage is using. Which is also very close to what you are asking.
What was NOT standardized was the spinorama measurements because I ran those before the distortion tests and forgot to set levels there.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #63
As explained, this is the beauty of the system. Once the setup is done to tell it where not to go as to hit the speaker, the rest is automated and takes about an hour. It then takes me another hour to document the results and do some listening tests. Compare this to entire weekend people spend measuring speakers outside and such.
The upfront system configuration is still painful due to way the software works and some bugs. I have to figure out exactly what is wrong with it to ask Klippel to fix it. Right now it takes me half hour to full hour just to get it configured.
And sometimes the scan hits obstacles and I have to reconfigure and start again.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #64
Some speakers have been sent and more are coming. The reason I bought a few is that I like to as quickly possible build a baseline of measurements and sound quality of speakers so member speakers can be judged more easily. And that we have better coverage of a category of speakers (budget ones in this case) than random sampling of what gets sent in.
I am also building up confidence in measurement system especially in this case since I noticed there is anechoic measurements from Harman. And for my listening tests.
But yes, it costs money and stuff takes up space. Given the huge investment though in the measurement system, I think we need to spend some money to feed it stuff to measure as to make the results useful. This happened with budget DACs which helped develop the standardized suite of measurements I now routinely run.
I do have a relationship with a small hifi shop locally but they don't have a ton to measure (they deal a lot in used gear). With other shops, they could get in serious trouble if I review something that doesn't sound good and manufacturer found that they sent in a unit for review. Manufacturers like to control what gets reviewed and by whom.
As to your specifics, a KEF has been promised for review by a local member. I just have to make the time to go and visit him (150 mile round trip). That drive costs as much as some of these budget speakers though!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #65
So far yes. They are all powered mini-monitors so I have them flanking my monitor just like I had the NHTs there before. That means they are pointed at me and about a 1 foot from the wall behind them. There is nothing behind me for 40 feet. Ceiling is slanted and goes way up as well.
I plan to create a new area to test passive speakers as I have no amp on my desk. And may test powered monitors in the same spot.
Why not just add a small class D amplifier on the desk, like an NCore MP based?
Pio2001
Senior Member
Yes, that's right. This is a big improvement in measurements.
But after that, the frequencies are shifted so that they are properly displayed in the graph.
Look carefully at the high frequencies : the H2 curve stops at 10 kHz because the second harmonic ceased to be measured once it reached 20 kHz, and the H3 curve stops at 6666 Hz for the same reason : 6666 x 3 = 20 kHz, where the measurement stopped.
Hi Amir,
This measurement correlates well with the ones published by Yamaha in The owners manual.
This is another example of a bi-amped, but passive crossover speaker.
To me it appears that crossover design was intentional to yield a particular response.
The HS8 has a flatter and smoother response. it is also a much bigger speaker.
This measurement correlates well with the ones published by Yamaha in The owners manual.
This is another example of a bi-amped, but passive crossover speaker.
To me it appears that crossover design was intentional to yield a particular response.
The HS8 has a flatter and smoother response. it is also a much bigger speaker.
Thanks for info.
Difficult to know what is intentional or not. If the peaking was between 1-2 kHz and dip 2-5 kHz I could image that is was intentional in terms of compensation for the timbral errors caused by the stereo system (as published Shirley et al and others).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #71
Half the time I don't have enough room to put my glass on the desk let alone have room for an amp.
Pio2001
Senior Member
I put my Neumann KH-120 on a desk once...
Yeh, I have heard those once. Anyone want to second this? Hate to buy it and someone saying it isn't a real Genelec.
I would say, 8020 at least as it’s the main comparison to KH80
fine each have a opinion but how can speaker position in subjective review satisfy everones preference or optimal position per tested model, suggest jump over/ignore info for subjective part provided in "Informal Listening Test" if one disagree the used setup there, objective part should be reference everyone should enjoy, that said amirm is trained.
I wouldn't choose the 8010A, since it's the only model that doesn't sport the Genelec textured waveguide (baffle is probably too small) and is a few years older than the 8020D/8030C.Yeh, I have heard those once. Anyone want to second this? Hate to buy it and someone saying it isn't a real Genelec.
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Amir, have you considered testing the Presonus Eris 5xt model? Small 5" active monitor with an elliptical waveguide. I am looking for some smaller desk monitors and would love to see the performance these offer.Half the time I don't have enough room to put my glass on the desk let alone have room for an amp.
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I am really impressed by the good work here so thank you very much Amir.
Since the klippel system calculates the whole wave field of the speaker there are a lot of possibilities which no other measuring system can offer. No real world speaker provides a solely spherical wave front, therefore deviation with different listening distances should occur. It would be very interesting to display the deviations of the frequency response by choosing different listening distances. Is this possible by the software?
Further investigation of the listening spot where the wave front hits the head and body would also by very interesting. The variance of the frequency responses is one part here the other point is the curvature of the wave front which leads to different head related transfer functions. There are so many possibilities even to the point where current research has not found sophisticated answers. Since you are so nice to provide the data I guess researchers might also be interested in the data. I thing your work will have a positive impact to the audio world.
I have one comment to the interpretation of the harmonic distortion. As far as I know the band from 1kHz to 2kHz is the most sensitive to hear lower order harmonic distortion. This is due to the frequencies of the harmonics which fall in the very sensitive region of about 4kHz and due to the lack of masking from the fundamental frequencies.
As others already mentioned intermodulation distortion would be very interesting since it much more correlates with the perceived quality.
Keep up the good work
Thomas
I am new to this forum. I am really impressed by the good work here so thank you very much Amir.
Since the klippel system calculates the whole wave field of the speaker there are a lot of possibilities which no other measuring system can offer. No real world speaker provides a solely spherical wave front, therefore deviation with different listening distances should occur. It would be very interesting to display the deviations of the frequency response by choosing different listening distances. Is this possible by the software?
Further investigation of the listening spot where the wave front hits the head and body would also by very interesting. The variance of the frequency responses is one part here the other point is the curvature of the wave front which leads to different head related transfer functions. There are so many possibilities even to the point where current research has not found sophisticated answers. Since you are so nice to provide the data I guess researchers might also be interested in the data. I thing your work will have a positive impact to the audio world.
I have one comment to the interpretation of the harmonic distortion. As far as I know the band from 1kHz to 2kHz is the most sensitive to hear lower order harmonic distortion. This is due to the frequencies of the harmonics which fall in the very sensitive region of about 4kHz and due to the lack of masking from the fundamental frequencies.
As others already mentioned intermodulation distortion would be very interesting since it much more correlates with the perceived quality.
Keep up the good work
Thomas
OP
- Thread Starter
- #79
Sure. In far field this just changes the amplitude and nothing else. In near-field however, it does show the wavefront in 360 degrees. It can even animate it! This is the static one at 1 kHz:
OP
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