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Will the Tempotec Sonata HD PRO be enough for hd6xx?
- Thread starter Geha
- Start date
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
That entirely depends on how loud you are listening and what levels are like on the digital side. Things are not unlikely to be just fine if you are an average to quiet listener though.
A 2 Vrms output should be good for a maximum of 109 dB SPL with the HD6xx, which is well within the green by itself (typical recommendations: >= 103 dB, more conservative >=110 dB SPL). Those who have indicated to require more than 2 Vrms with such headphones have generally been at least middle-aged males, but it probably depends on a lot of factors like what your hearing has been subjected to, genetics and whatnot.
Let's do some math on what that would mean in my case:
I'm using ReplayGain, which is shooting for average levels between about -17 and -21.5 dBFS rms, with a pre-gain setting of -3.5 dB. So here, that would mean average levels between 84 and 89.5 dB SPL, save for a few unfortunate records that would clip and are boosted less (e.g. Mahler No. 4 under Simon Rattle, RG +7.83 dB, true peak 1.000824 - that would see ~4.3 dB less than nominal, i.e. ~80 dB SPL average).
At home, I have my K+H O110 (apparently 95.5 dB SPL @ 0 dBu in, 0 dB) turned down to -6 dB, so with a 2 Vrms (+8 dBu) soundcard output I should be getting ~97.5 dB SPL max. Seems about right, given that my listening levels tend to be about 10 dB below average. I rarely turn op soundcard volume beyond 50% (-10 dB) even on classical, so with the super dynamic Mahler No. 4 that would be... 58.5 dB SPL. Pop might be listened to at -23 dB... 54 dB SPL. That's at 1 m though, while I'm listening at 40 cm tops... so you can probably add another 6-7 dB. My previous guesstimate had been 60-65 dB, so that was pretty much bang-on. That's in a fairly quiet environment, mind you.
So I would say most people should get sufficient output in a combo like that, except for explicitly loud listeners.
A 2 Vrms output should be good for a maximum of 109 dB SPL with the HD6xx, which is well within the green by itself (typical recommendations: >= 103 dB, more conservative >=110 dB SPL). Those who have indicated to require more than 2 Vrms with such headphones have generally been at least middle-aged males, but it probably depends on a lot of factors like what your hearing has been subjected to, genetics and whatnot.
Let's do some math on what that would mean in my case:
I'm using ReplayGain, which is shooting for average levels between about -17 and -21.5 dBFS rms, with a pre-gain setting of -3.5 dB. So here, that would mean average levels between 84 and 89.5 dB SPL, save for a few unfortunate records that would clip and are boosted less (e.g. Mahler No. 4 under Simon Rattle, RG +7.83 dB, true peak 1.000824 - that would see ~4.3 dB less than nominal, i.e. ~80 dB SPL average).
At home, I have my K+H O110 (apparently 95.5 dB SPL @ 0 dBu in, 0 dB) turned down to -6 dB, so with a 2 Vrms (+8 dBu) soundcard output I should be getting ~97.5 dB SPL max. Seems about right, given that my listening levels tend to be about 10 dB below average. I rarely turn op soundcard volume beyond 50% (-10 dB) even on classical, so with the super dynamic Mahler No. 4 that would be... 58.5 dB SPL. Pop might be listened to at -23 dB... 54 dB SPL. That's at 1 m though, while I'm listening at 40 cm tops... so you can probably add another 6-7 dB. My previous guesstimate had been 60-65 dB, so that was pretty much bang-on. That's in a fairly quiet environment, mind you.
So I would say most people should get sufficient output in a combo like that, except for explicitly loud listeners.
It works very well at moderate volume. I have tried it.
If you like to listen loud with a lot of bass heavy music, with some bass EQ boost, you might have a problem with distorted bass. Or if you like watching Blu-ray movies, some of the very loud special effects scenes might distort due to the wide dynamic range, depending on your listening volume.
In other words, for most people, the Sonata HD Pro will be fine with the HD6XX in most listening situations.
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
I don't see how you'd get it to distort if the EQ is set up properly (i.e. avoiding clipping)... it may just fall short of desired volume.
L5730
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Bass boost = clipping.
Solution to clipping = turn down overall gain, in other words something like a High Shelf.
Result = quieter overall level, which may take it below an acceptable volume depending on program material.
EqAPO does support some VST plugins. There is the opportunity to put in George Yohng's W1 limiter, which is pretty good and can be driven hard before it turns to garbage. Of course, this is dynamic modification and will have some effect on the sonic quality, but may not be too bad.
It's good to know that the HD650/6XX is at least usable with this little DAC/amp, even if not as loud as some might want.
Then we just grab a Topping L30/Schiit Heresy/JDS Atom or Gescheli or SMSL/Loxjie/THX or something else. Plenty of options. A 3.5mm TRS>2x RCA male cable should be cheap and readily available. For anyone in the UK/Europe Kenable sell cheap and fine sounding OFC ones.
I happened to plug my HD580 (basically a HD600) into my phone and Sonata HD Pro recently. Loudness wasn't a problem. Max volume was actually a little too much even if wanting to listen at headbanging levels. The actual problem was, despite sounding "musical," the 580 lacked much body, texture, fullness, etc.
I see a lot of people underpowering headphones like HD600, K701, etc. And even much more efficient headphones. Sure, they still tend to sound pretty good when underpowered despite being loud enough, but they don't sound like they should.
Still getting some stutters/dropouts with the Sonata and Windows 10 and desktop amp even with updated firmware and USB driver, btw. I wish they'd make firmware that eliminates the internal power switching it does since that is presumably the problem. I'd like to recommend it for Windows/desktop amp use but I currently can't.
I see a lot of people underpowering headphones like HD600, K701, etc. And even much more efficient headphones. Sure, they still tend to sound pretty good when underpowered despite being loud enough, but they don't sound like they should.
Still getting some stutters/dropouts with the Sonata and Windows 10 and desktop amp even with updated firmware and USB driver, btw. I wish they'd make firmware that eliminates the internal power switching it does since that is presumably the problem. I'd like to recommend it for Windows/desktop amp use but I currently can't.
It would be great if we could figure out more specifically the issue. I have not had a problem, and I have been exclusively using it as a DAC with my headphone amp on Windows 10 for over 6 months. I know others who have not had problems either.
Then for those who do, sometimes the problem goes away with firmware or driver updates. One person noted that a motherboard bios update fixed the issue. Too bad we haven't had everyone post their motherboards. I've wondered if it's related to a specific USB motherboard chipset.
Then again several reports in different forums mention problems with its not-quite-up-to-standard micro USB input having trouble maintaining a connection if even minimally moved or touched. The female connector seems to be seated just a bit too deep and sometimes doesn't connect well even with the stock cable, never mind 3rd-party cables. Could be many of the above-mentioned cases were simply due to this USB issue + slightly moving the device during use. (There had to be good reasons the "manufacturer version" was priced 2x lower than the Hidisz branded sibling, eh?)
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