- Thread Starter
- #41
How does your statement being wrong that my expectations were not met, not negate the point?
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Will the AK4499EX successor come out in 2025?
- Thread starter tyanlion
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unpluggged
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1) If you need only D/A conversion, the ADI-2 DAC FS is cheaper and is priced similarly to the AK4499EQ-based Popping DX9, while presenting much more value. German retailers such as Thomann and Music Store Professional ship virtually everywhere.
2) If you are after performance measurements and believe that any AK4499xx-based DAC will perform significantly better than the $79 SMSL SU-1, you will be disappointed.
3) Having read through your replies in this thread, I came to a conclusion that you have been merely trolling from the start, beginning with the very OP question, knowing beforehand nobody here can offer a direct and precise answer, and then proceeding with confrontational behavior, indicating that you did not came here in good faith. So I add you to my ignore list and stop spending my valuable time on toxic and fruitless interactions.
it does not matter if a new chip comes out in a month or so a DAC is commodity you change every decade or so , nothing revolutionary is going to happen in this space . You cant outperfect perfect ?
- Thread Starter
- #44
You are assuming too many things.
1) If you need only D/A conversion, the ADI-2 DAC FS is cheaper and is priced similarly to the AK4499EQ-based Popping DX9, while presenting much more value. German retailers such as Thomann and Music Store Professional ship virtually everywhere.
The price in my country to ship this from Thoman is around 758 usd way above my budget, I have already said the RME are above the budget. The DX9 was never in my list of possible candidates because of its price, if I am also right the DX9 uses the last gen AK4499EQ (althought 2 of em). Btw thanks I didn't know you could ship directly from Thomann but if I am going to do A/D I would want something with newer internals.
2) If you are after performance measurements and believe that any AK4499xx-based DAC will perform significantly better than the $79 SMSL SU-1, you will be disappointed.
I have already stated that I want to try an AK version because the previous dac was a SABRE implementation. The E70 velvet is just 335 usd where I am which is pretty cheap, and is holding the flagship AK dac, so If I wait I think a similarly priced unit might appear just as cheap with the next flagship. I have actually gone to my country's audio seller to test most of the dacs. To my ears I can tell the difference between the cheaper like the SMSL SU-1and mid tier dacs like the E70.
3) "knowing beforehand nobody here can offer a direct and precise answer,"
How on earth would I know that, I don't thats why I asked the question. This AK question only popped in my mind when I was thinking gee, this AK chip was released in 2022 I wonder if the successor is going to be released anytime soon. There was no further ill intention etc other than that.
"I came to a conclusion that you have been merely trolling from the start, beginning with the very OP question ... and then proceeding with confrontational behavior, indicating that you did not came here in good faith"
I am not trolling. I feel you guys are the ones who are "proceeding with confrontational behavior" not me. I am trying to keep this thread on track, while ppl keep trying to question the underling reasons which I have already stated reasons why I want to wait for a newer ak model.
"So I add you to my ignore list and stop spending my valuable time on toxic and fruitless interactions."
Apart from that telling me that I can ship from Thomann directly, your previous messages to me have been condescending and fruitless, so pls go ahead and ignore me, I am much much more happier without you. These threats for ignoring etc are not coming from me, thats why I was saying that the confrontational one is you.
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- Thread Starter
- #45
I mean this is the same argument others have made in the thread which is "buy what you need now instead of waiting for the next upgrade". As I have written in the thread I can wait so why not? The next upgrade may not be revolutionary but if I need to just wait a few months why not get the next model instead of something thats years old. I do this with other types of electronics, like computers and cameras etc. Basically this is why sites like macrumors, sony alpha rumors etc are around, some ppl just want to know when the next model may come out. I don't see why I should not to this if I don't need a replacement immediately.
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boxerfan88
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I think your OP question is fair, and there is no need to justify asking the question.
The general public won’t know the answer to the question about upcoming product, except for AKM or people very close to AKM product development. Those people in the know would probably be under NDA.
It is normal for companies to keep future product information secret so as to avoid impacting sales of current products. There are exceptions of course, where companies may publish product roadmap.
I think you’re right to stick with your current speaker setup, as they are pretty good, and ignore unnecessary pressure to change.
If your intention is to get AKM next top end DAC, maybe buy something used to replace the current DAC, and wait it out.
The general public won’t know the answer to the question about upcoming product, except for AKM or people very close to AKM product development. Those people in the know would probably be under NDA.
It is normal for companies to keep future product information secret so as to avoid impacting sales of current products. There are exceptions of course, where companies may publish product roadmap.
I think you’re right to stick with your current speaker setup, as they are pretty good, and ignore unnecessary pressure to change.
If your intention is to get AKM next top end DAC, maybe buy something used to replace the current DAC, and wait it out.
- Thread Starter
- #47
Thank you.
AnalogSteph
Major Contributor
What incentive would AKM have to replace their flagship desktop DAC product again so soon (which I can't imagine is make them tons of money) when there is fairly little improvement to be had in this sector? They've had to put a lot of effort into repopulating their product stack after the factory fire and probably lost a fair few customers. I'd be focusing on profitability, quality, smoothly-running production and well-stocked distributors before any extravaganza at this point in time.
oleg87
Addicted to Fun and Learning
It’s an audio dac, not a gpu. Are you an engineer designing an akm chip into a product? Then try asking the company’s sales people. can’t think of another reason to care.
for what it’s worth, they are not touting any new audio products at CES. they don’t make shiny goodies for consumers on some regular cadence, they are making chips for other companies to build into stuff.
for what it’s worth, they are not touting any new audio products at CES. they don’t make shiny goodies for consumers on some regular cadence, they are making chips for other companies to build into stuff.
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I am going to respectfully disagree with the folks here. Top of the line DACs so far are mostly just that, dumb DACs that do nothing else, no features whatsoever.
Fair enough, but why this is relevant? because let's admit it, what the SMSLs and TOPPINGs of the world do, in my opinion and obviously oversimplifying, is to solder a chip on a PCB, put it in an aluminium enclosure and call it a day. If you want something else, you better get ready to pay $$$ or loose in some other department, with a few honorable exceptions.
We all have been crying for DSP, high pass filters, loudness volume control and other features, but guys, ain't gonna happen until these come as features integrated in the DAC chip. And that's why i would also be paying attention to what comes next: new features.
Am i right or wrong? I think we are going to know very soon, the new ESS chips come with "multi-band PEQs, DRC, AGL, MIXERs, Audio Expansion and Compression, stereo widening, and specialty filters such as RIAA de-emphasis and cross-over filters." let's see what happens, but sure i am mildly excited, and hope AKM surprise us as well.
Fair enough, but why this is relevant? because let's admit it, what the SMSLs and TOPPINGs of the world do, in my opinion and obviously oversimplifying, is to solder a chip on a PCB, put it in an aluminium enclosure and call it a day. If you want something else, you better get ready to pay $$$ or loose in some other department, with a few honorable exceptions.
We all have been crying for DSP, high pass filters, loudness volume control and other features, but guys, ain't gonna happen until these come as features integrated in the DAC chip. And that's why i would also be paying attention to what comes next: new features.
Am i right or wrong? I think we are going to know very soon, the new ESS chips come with "multi-band PEQs, DRC, AGL, MIXERs, Audio Expansion and Compression, stereo widening, and specialty filters such as RIAA de-emphasis and cross-over filters." let's see what happens, but sure i am mildly excited, and hope AKM surprise us as well.
And you properly level matched them and tested blind?
- Thread Starter
- #53
Yes
There are actual useful differences in computers and cameras it makes total sense.
I could maybe understand if you waited for the next complete DAC model from RME or Topping or any brand, as implementation tops any involved components by magnitudes ? Heck RME changed from AKM to ESS when the AKM factory burned and the product is the same, and they did not even pick the top off the line chip ? The chip is just a component ? like a resistor or something , would you wait for the next model of capacitor before buing any new audio component ? A DAC chip is not CPU or RAM or some component that would bring further progress are make tangible differences .
- Thread Starter
- #55
Not really some of the time for computers and cameras they can also be quite minor upgrades.
"as implementation tops any involved components by magnitudes"
I whole heartedly agree, the dac is more than the sabre and akm chip, things like power play a huge role. But what I have noticed manufactures tend to come out with new models when a new dac chip is released, so once the review comes out for the new model i'll decide
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Randyman...
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Wow - ok - this is taking the discussion down a newly paved road
Saw this in the press release:And there you go. Basically DAC and DRC+Measurement all in one chip? (Assuming it has a 2 ch ADC, or is the input digital only?). Would it have anywhere near the compute resources of whatever Deonon / et. al. use for DRC? Even if not - a handful of useful filters, HP/LP, and possibly a measurement mic input would certainly "spruce up" the "Affordable 1-chip DAC" market...
- Thread Starter
- #57
I'm perfectly fine with talking about SABRE chips in this thread, no problems, keep going down this roadWow - ok - this is taking the discussion down a newly paved road
And there you go. Basically DAC and DRC+Measurement all in one chip? (Assuming it has a 2 ch ADC, or is the input digital only?). Would it have anywhere near the compute resources of whatever Deonon / et. al. use for DRC? Even if not - a handful of useful filters, HP/LP, and possibly a measurement mic input would certainly "spruce up" the "Affordable 1-chip DAC" market...
. I tried the Topping D90 III SABRE and I kinda liked it, if SABRE is coming out with something great that is better than the AKM competitor well I don't mind to try it out as well what's the harm.
So, what was the testing protocol then?
- Thread Starter
- #59
We are kinda going off the topic, but I gave them a list of DACs I wanted to hear and told them to mix them up in any order for me to hear it, I just took some notes on each dac after listening to it. I was quite excited to try the R2R dacs like the Topping Centaurus and the Topping D90 discrete
Yes EQ sub crossover and DRC on chip that would be something new and an actual tangible difference the basic soundquality are solved problem since decades no need for FOMO there .
I use a WiiM unit exactly because of these features ( RME also has an extensive feature set ) . If the dac chip itself would provide it , it would lower the bar for implementation.
Many of the latest DAC's are just more of the same best SINAD efforts, new and better features is the thing we are waiting for .
the basic soundquality are solved problem since decades no need for FOMO there .I use a WiiM unit exactly because of these features ( RME also has an extensive feature set ) . If the dac chip itself would provide it , it would lower the bar for implementation.
Many of the latest DAC's are just more of the same best SINAD efforts, new and better features is the thing we are waiting for .
