MA Gold 5g + 1120 = Power Amp needed

[OhmSweetOhm]

Leave out speakers and room to start( we can return to that) and what exactly with your electronic components thats audible to humans can't be measured?

Everything can indeed me measured. But I’m wondering if good measurement are always an indicator of “nice sound”.. To keep the photography analogy, there are some old lenses that are not good on paper at all, they have many flaws like distortions etc. And yet, many people generally love the output of those lenses and prefer it over clinical modern lenses that test well on charts etc

 

[JustJones]

Define nice sound. You can find flawed electronics if that's your goal.

 

[OhmSweetOhm]

Define nice sound. You can find flawed electronics if that's your goal.

I define it as the reproduction of audio signals.. so a blend of frequencies, dynamics, timbre, amplitude, and maybe certain imperfection can evoke an emotional response and giving you goosebumps

E.g Some people say that the (not cheap) brand Naïm has a stubborn / headstrong and warm sound. Perhaps these are actually imperfections?

 

[JustJones]

After reading through the thread you've had good advice. If you find you need more power on the front use the preouts on the Anthem to a hypex or purifi amp.

 

[JeremyFife]

I want to bring up another point, and I’d love to hear thoughts on this by anyone. This forum puts a strong emphasis on measurable data, which is valuable, but there are some things that simply can’t be measured right?

To draw a comparison with photography (which I know a bit more about): a photo can be perfectly lit, with no exploded highlights (Haha ironically this is also called clipping in photography) and perfect focus, accurate colors etc etc.. and yet still this picture can feel completely emotionless.

So, the question is—can something like that even be measured? Or is there always a subjective element that measurements can’t fully capture?

No-one can make you like a song (piece of music, artist, genre etc) however well it is reproduced .

The art bit is for your own subjective enjoyment, the hifi part is completely understandable with measurements.
There are thousands of pages of circular argument about this on here - dive in!

 

[OhmSweetOhm]

No-one can make you like a song (piece of music, artist, genre etc) however well it is reproduced .

The art bit is for your own subjective enjoyment, the hifi part is completely understandable with measurements.
There are thousands of pages of circular argument about this on here - dive in!

Fair enough! I just want to make it clear that I was thinking out loud.

My gut feeling already told me that there’s a lot of emotion involved with audio gear. And extremely expensive hi-fi amps or cables don’t always perform as well in tests as their price might suggest. (It would be interesting to see all amps with similar functionality get a total ASR/Amir test score and then plot that against their average retail price! )

Anyway, I’m glad to be here! And I’m already looking forward to exploring those posts you mention.

 

[JeremyFife]

Fair enough! I just want to make it clear that I was thinking out loud.

My gut feeling already told me that there’s a lot of emotion involved with audio gear. And extremely expensive hi-fi amps or cables don’t always perform as well in tests as their price might suggest. (It would be interesting to see all amps with similar functionality get a total ASR/Amir test score and then plot that against their average retail price! )

Anyway, I’m glad to be here! And I’m already looking forward to exploring those posts you mention.

If you feel brave, take a look at this one: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...are-measurements-everything-or-nothing.29062/

The argument is set out and answered in the first few posts ... and then continues for 760 pages / 15k posts

 

[Chrispy]

I get it now. If there are no power issues, adding an amp while still using the Anthem wouldn’t make any difference since I’d be using the same DAC.

The only real upgrade in this scenario would be getting a separate streamer and an integrated stereo amp…

Why do you think an integrated amp would be a goal vs a power amp in terms of adding to your Anthem (or other avr)? Your Anthem is already an integrated amp and duplicating functionality is for what reason? Streamers can be something as simple as an app on a phone/tablet/computer, but you may want different functionality (or even aesthetic). Worrying about a dac these days is mostly a waste of time (unless you need some specific functionality/connectivity)....altho you can get far better specs than is audible....

As to some of your comments about price vs sound quality, well that's a slippery slope for sure, as it's not a relationship that necessarily scales like that. Much of the very high end is more about marketing/aesthetics than any particular capabilities or performance achieved. You mentioned Naim, which has a certain amount of marketing and voodoo going for it, but magic audio qualities, meh.

As to comparisons, even the a/b you did at the store can be tripped up by different settings/processing or even simple level matching (let alone blind etc). Not easy to do well in any case.

Biggest sound quality differences will be in speakers, room and setup. Maybe even taking measurements so you can see what's going on particularly.

 

[OhmSweetOhm]

Why do you think an integrated amp would be a goal vs a power amp in terms of adding to your Anthem (or other avr)? Your Anthem is already an integrated amp and duplicating functionality is for what reason? Streamers can be something as simple as an app on a phone/tablet/computer, but you may want different functionality (or even aesthetic). Worrying about a dac these days is mostly a waste of time (unless you need some specific functionality/connectivity)....altho you can get far better specs than is audible....

As to some of your comments about price vs sound quality, well that's a slippery slope for sure, as it's not a relationship that necessarily scales like that. Much of the very high end is more about marketing/aesthetics than any particular capabilities or performance achieved. You mentioned Naim, which has a certain amount of marketing and voodoo going for it, but magic audio qualities, meh.

As to comparisons, even the a/b you did at the store can be tripped up by different settings/processing or even simple level matching (let alone blind etc). Not easy to do well in any case.

Biggest sound quality differences will be in speakers, room and setup. Maybe even taking measurements so you can see what's going on particularly.

Fair enough—most decent DACs, even budget ones, already perform beyond what we can actually hear.

I just assumed this upgrade (also a streamer) was necessary to get any audible improvement when adding both a streamer and a stereo amp. Especially since most of you suggested that simply adding a high-quality €900 second-hand amp (I paid €1100 for my Anthem) wouldn’t make a noticeable difference in sound quality.

So put differently, if you buy a 1000 euro AVR, adding a 1000 euro stereo amp just for the front speakers, in general, wont improve SQ?

 

[JeremyFife]

Fair enough—most decent DACs, even budget ones, already perform beyond what we can actually hear.

I just assumed this upgrade (also a streamer) was necessary to get any audible improvement when adding both a streamer and a stereo amp. Especially since most of you suggested that simply adding a high-quality €900 second-hand amp (I paid €1100 for my Anthem) wouldn’t make a noticeable difference in sound quality.

So put differently, if you buy a 1000 euro AVR, adding a 1000 euro stereo amp just for the front speakers, in general, wont improve SQ?

Correct

Unless the AVR is really poor, and yours is not.
Unless the front speakers are very difficult loads or you want huge amounts of bass

Beware simplistic answers and generalisations (apart from this one!) but, basically you are correct.
Sound improvement does not come from the electronics.

 

[Chrispy]

Fair enough—most decent DACs, even budget ones, already perform beyond what we can actually hear.

I just assumed this upgrade (also a streamer) was necessary to get any audible improvement when adding both a streamer and a stereo amp. Especially since most of you suggested that simply adding a high-quality €900 second-hand amp (I paid €1100 for my Anthem) wouldn’t make a noticeable difference in sound quality.

So put differently, if you buy a 1000 euro AVR, adding a 1000 euro stereo amp just for the front speakers, in general, wont improve SQ?

It might expand capabilities for power/impedance handling, but sound "quality" particularly, no unless that's how you define sound quality, not sure what you mean....

 

[OhmSweetOhm]

…. Your Anthem is already an integrated amp and duplicating functionality is for what reason? Streamers can be something as simple as an app on a phone/tablet/computer, but you may want different functionality (or even aesthetic). Worrying about a dac these days is mostly a waste of time (unless you need some specific functionality/connectivity)....altho you can get far better specs than is audible....

Today I got my 1120 and I just discovered it only directly supports Spotify so no Tidal.

To use Tidal with MQA, I’d have to purchase a separate streamer or use a PC-based solution like Roon. Unfortunately, only the 1140/740 models support Tidal. Also unlike the 1140/740 the 1120 does not have Bluetooth which also allows you to use other streaming services..

This is a huge disappointment…

@edit: btw using Tidal through chromecast won’t give you the Flac / MQA / advantage from what I read online..?!

 

[Chrispy]

Today I got my 1120 and I just discovered it only directly supports Spotify so no Tidal.

To use Tidal with MQA, I’d have to purchase a separate streamer or use a PC-based solution like Roon. Unfortunately, only the 1140/740 models support Tidal. Also unlike the 1140/740 the 1120 does not have Bluetooth which also allows you to use other streaming services..

This is a huge disappointment…

@edit: btw using Tidal through chromecast won’t give you the Flac / MQA / advantage from what I read online..?!

I trialed Tidal a while back at the beginning of the MQA nonsense. I mostly didn't like the library choices it was missing as well as the user interface (let alone wading thru Jay Z ads). I'm fine with Spotify's premium membership. I mostly use my own library from cd rips, and some multich disks. Couldn't tell you about Tidal working with chromecast, altho I do use audio chromecast units on some of my older gear.

 

[Ropeburn]

Today I got my 1120 and I just discovered it only directly supports Spotify so no Tidal.

To use Tidal with MQA, I’d have to purchase a separate streamer or use a PC-based solution like Roon. Unfortunately, only the 1140/740 models support Tidal. Also unlike the 1140/740 the 1120 does not have Bluetooth which also allows you to use other streaming services..

This is a huge disappointment…

@edit: btw using Tidal through chromecast won’t give you the Flac / MQA / advantage from what I read online..?!

Hasn't Tidal completely removed MQA for months, or did I miss something? MQA is dead.

 

[JeremyFife]

Today I got my 1120 and I just discovered it only directly supports Spotify so no Tidal.

To use Tidal with MQA, I’d have to purchase a separate streamer or use a PC-based solution like Roon. Unfortunately, only the 1140/740 models support Tidal. Also unlike the 1140/740 the 1120 does not have Bluetooth which also allows you to use other streaming services..

This is a huge disappointment…

@edit: btw using Tidal through chromecast won’t give you the Flac / MQA / advantage from what I read online..?!

Bummer!

Pop a WiiM Mini into your system and you get bit perfect streaming and Bluetooth for peanuts (ok, £90 GBP). Later on that can be repurposed for another room.

 

[OhmSweetOhm]

Bummer!

Pop a WiiM Mini into your system and you get bit perfect streaming and Bluetooth for peanuts (ok, £90 GBP). Later on that can be repurposed for another

That’s actually a nice idea. I can buy the pro version for 130 GBP which is nice since it has a 12 volt trigger out.. . The only issue is the mrx1120 does not have a trigger in. Ive checked quite some threads and people only use the anthems and other AVRs als device to turn on other devices like power amps? It seems I need a WiiM with HDMI to use CEC power on?

Btw its fine for me either way, so:

option 1) steamer will be switched ON via my phone and it will power-on the Anthem

Option 2) I switch the anthem on through the anthem remote App and the AVR will also power on the streamer with a trigger

 

[Ropeburn]

That’s actually a nice idea. I can buy the pro version for 130 GBP which is nice since it has a 12 volt trigger out.. . The only issue is the mrx1120 does not have a trigger in. Ive checked quite some threads and people only use the anthems and other AVRs als device to turn on other devices like power amps? It seems I need a WiiM with HDMI to use CEC power on?

Btw its fine for me either way, so:

option 1) steamer will be switched on via my phone and will power on Anthem

Option 2) switch anthem on through the app and it will also power on the streamer

The only issue here is whatever gear you already have not having a trigger input. Which is not at all the fault of the more modern gear that supplies it.

 

[voodooless]

To keep the photography analogy, there are some old lenses that are not good on paper at all, they have many flaws like distortions etc. And yet, many people generally love the output of those lenses and prefer it over clinical modern lenses that test well on charts etc

This analogy is misleading. The photographer chose the lens, not you! Similarly, the artists and mastering engineers choose how something should sound. Your equipment reproduces this as best as it can. Just as you would use a calibrated screen to get the best representation of the photo, including the distortions of the wonky lens.

 

[Chrispy]

That’s actually a nice idea. I can buy the pro version for 130 GBP which is nice since it has a 12 volt trigger out.. . The only issue is the mrx1120 does not have a trigger in. Ive checked quite some threads and people only use the anthems and other AVRs als device to turn on other devices like power amps? It seems I need a WiiM with HDMI to use CEC power on?

Btw its fine for me either way, so:

option 1) steamer will be switched ON via my phone and it will power-on the Anthem

Option 2) I switch the anthem on through the anthem remote App and the AVR will also power on the streamer with a trigger

Smart technology can work with a variety of gear depending how you want to structure it (e.g. I use smart power strips to power on/off all needed gear)

 

[JeremyFife]

That’s actually a nice idea. I can buy the pro version for 130 GBP which is nice since it has a 12 volt trigger out.. . The only issue is the mrx1120 does not have a trigger in. Ive checked quite some threads and people only use the anthems and other AVRs als device to turn on other devices like power amps? It seems I need a WiiM with HDMI to use CEC power on?

Btw its fine for me either way, so:

option 1) steamer will be switched ON via my phone and it will power-on the Anthem

Option 2) I switch the anthem on through the anthem remote App and the AVR will also power on the streamer with a trigger

You can add an external slave power switch with a trigger (an external trigger). Audiophonics do them for €30 and I'm sure other places do too.