WiiM Ultra Streamer Preamp Review

[Paffi]

Does anybody know the delay (ms) the Ultra adds in the signal chain?

Well, maybe it helps somebody else. I bought It and measured it. In my case (active EQ and Crossover for Subs) I measured the delay of the Ultra with approx. 58,4 ms. So way to long to integrate it in a HT-setup.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Well, maybe it helps somebody else. I bought It and measured it. In my case (active EQ and Crossover for Subs) I measured the delay of the Ultra with approx. 58,4 ms. So way to long to integrate it in a HT-setup.

The eARC input works fine and audio is perfectly in sync with video. Although maybe that’s because I’m using an Apple TV 4K as my streamer and I ran the 4K’s audio/video sync calibration though.

When I tried keeping the WiiM Ultra and a WiiM Mini grouped (so I could hook up a spectrum analyzer to the Mini), the Group Delay was absolutely horrendous and the audio severely lagged the video, with the only remedy being to ungroup the Mini from the Ultra. That being said, my understanding is that WiiM are working on a feature to fix this delay when grouped. Time will tell if it works out.

-Ed

 

[Paffi]

The eARC input works fine and audio is perfectly in sync with video. Although maybe that’s because I’m using an Apple TV 4K as my streamer and I ran the 4K’s audio/video sync calibration though.

When I tried keeping the WiiM Ultra and a WiiM Mini grouped (so I could hook up a spectrum analyzer to the Mini), the Group Delay was absolutely horrendous and the audio severely lagged the video, with the only remedy being to ungroup the Mini from the Ultra. That being said, my understanding is that WiiM are working on a feature to fix this delay when grouped. Time will tell if it works out.

-Ed

I should have added: I measured analog in (from AV preamp as source ) to analog out of the WIIM Ultra.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

I should have added: I measured analog in (from AV preamp as source ) to analog out of the WIIM Ultra.

So we wonder how much of the delay was the ADC stage, since the line in is converted to digital before processing back out.

-Ed

 

[en6ads]

Apologies if this question has been answered before. I did a search and couldn't find anything. I also posted on Reddit (

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1h95npl/internal_processing_sample_rate_of_wiim_streamers

).

I'd like to know what the internal processing sample rate is of these Wiim streamers/Dacs. Meaning the sample rate fed to the processor for room correction / equalization / filtering etc. I don't mean the supported music sample rates that can be received successfully before any processing.

MiniDSP SHD line is 96kHz, and others in their lineup are 48kHz. Most AV receivers are 48khz (Denon, etc), meaning any audio over 48khz is downsampled before processing.

Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Apologies if this question has been answered before. I did a search and couldn't find anything. I also posted on Reddit (

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/1h95npl/internal_processing_sample_rate_of_wiim_streamers

).

I'd like to know what the internal processing sample rate is of these Wiim streamers/Dacs. Meaning the sample rate fed to the processor for room correction / equalization / filtering etc. I don't mean the supported music sample rates that can be received successfully before any processing.

MiniDSP SHD line is 96kHz, and others in their lineup are 48kHz. Most AV receivers are 48khz (Denon, etc), meaning any audio over 48khz is downsampled before processing.

Thank you.

It is impossible to tell 100% for sure as the manufacturer has not said; however, all content that is PCM of 192KHz/24-bit or lower is fed full sample rate and resolution to external DACs if connected as such, regardless of DSP functions in use. Anything DSD or PCM higher than 192/24 (such as DXD) gets re/downsampled down to 192/24.

-Ed

 

[en6ads]

It is impossible to tell 100% for sure as the manufacturer has not said; however, all content that is PCM of 192KHz/24-bit or lower is fed full sample rate and resolution to external DACs if connected as such, regardless of DSP functions in use. Anything DSD or PCM higher than 192/24 (such as DXD) gets re/downsampled down to 192/24.

-Ed

Edit: sorry, I reread your reply. Interesting, so 192 is digitally outputted even if processing is on? Hmm. Interesting

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure the DACs can handle 192, most can. The question is whether the SOC has the bandwidth to process 192 when applying room correction / parametric equalization / filters etc, because the $1500 minDSP can only do 96 (450 MHz/2700 MFLOPs). I tried to look for teardown videos that expose the SOC used. All I could find was in their specs "Quad Core A53", which sounds much more than the 2700 megaflops of the MiniDSP?

I wonder if we can objectively test output differences of a 192kHz file with all processing off (just receive, send to Dac, out), to processing on (say PEQ or room correction). Maybe an oscilloscope, but I don't have one.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Edit: sorry, I reread your reply. Interesting, so 192 is digitally outputted even if processing is on? Hmm. Interesting

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure the DACs can handle 192, most can. The question is whether the SOC has the bandwidth to process 192 when applying room correction / parametric equalization / filters etc, because the $1500 minDSP can only do 96 (450 MHz/2700 MFLOPs). I tried to look for teardown videos that expose the SOC used. All I could find was in their specs "Quad Core A53", which sounds much more than the 2700 megaflops of the MiniDSP?

I wonder if we can objectively test output differences of a 192kHz file with all processing off (just receive, send to Dac, out), to processing on (say PEQ or room correction). Maybe an oscilloscope, but I don't have one.

Right, there is always a possibility that it is re-upsampling the music back to the original sample rate and bit depth after processing, although that seems odd.

-Ed

 

[en6ads]

Right, there is always a possibility that it is re-upsampling the music back to the original sample rate and bit depth after processing, although that seems odd.

-Ed

OK, thanks. I ask because I'm fairly new to 2 channel preamps (more home theater multichannel in the past). It amazes me that people buy hi res music when it's not fully known whether their equipment will play full fidelity. In the AV receiver space Trinnov can process at full 192, a few others process at 96kHz, and most consumer receivers are 48kHz.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

OK, thanks. I ask because I'm fairly new to 2 channel preamps (more home theater multichannel in the past). It amazes me that people buy hi res music when it's not fully known whether their equipment will play full fidelity. In the AV receiver space Trinnov can process at full 192, a few others process at 96kHz, and most consumer receivers are 48kHz.

I can tell you that, for example, a track that is 88KHz/24-bit or 96KHz/24-bit on Qobuz, that is the bit depth and sample rate that the WiiM sends to my DAC (currently Topping E70 Velvet, but have a Geshelli JNOG3 arriving on Monday, and a pair of double Sparkos SS2950 op-amps already on hand and waiting for the DAC to arrive), even though I am using both, EQ/room correction and bass management. This leads me to believe that the WiiM is able to perform everything at up to 192/24, hence why songs don’t get resampled. That also happens to make sense considering the DAC chips themselves in the WiiM are capable of more than 192/24, yet that’s the max resolution of the WiiM, regardless of which DAC (internal or external) is being used.

-Ed

 

[Brian Hall]

Hi everyone! At my country, the WiiM Ultra is selling for Php 19,000 which is roughly around $322. Whereas the Eversolo DMP-A6 is around Php 37,500 ($638). Which do you think is better for a 2-channel setup?

Setup:
Speakers - Elac Unifi Reference
Sub - SVS SB-1000 Pro
Power Amp - Tonewinner AD-2500 Pro
DAC - SMSL SU-9n
Preamp - Topping A90 Discrete

I have both. I would get the Ultra instead of the DMP-A6. With either one you won't need that SMSL DAC.

 

[pogo]

Right, there is always a possibility that it is re-upsampling the music back to the original sample rate and bit depth after processing, although that seems odd.

You can find this out very easily by applying a frequency sweep up to 100kHz and measuring the output. My NAD M33, for example, reaches 192kHz post-processing when DL is activated, which is the exception rather than the rule. Let's see how the DL implementation of the Bluesound Nodes handles this in the future.

 

[en6ads]

The streaming services offer music at several resolutions. If you are using an iPhone it will default to 16-bit/44.1 kHz. You can adjust it higher but it requires more bandwidth. It's a similar story with miniDSP Flex. Only 48 kHz is supported when using Dirac Live. But this really isn't a big deal as it's difficult to hear a difference between 16-bit/44.1 kHz CD quality and 192K. In most blind tests, I actually found myself preferring the CD resolution.

Agreed, transparency can be achieved with quite low sample rates. It's just nice to know if I buy high res music, will it be downsampled before processing. I think as a consumer, I should have the right to know this.

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Agreed, transparency can be achieved with quite low sample rates. It's just nice to know if I buy high res music, will it be downsampled before processing. I think as a consumer, I should have the right to know this.

I wouldn’t be overly concerned. My previous streamer was full bit-perfect for all sources, but lacked room correction and bass management. The WiiM sounded just as good before I even turned on bass management or room correction when I first got it and swapped it right in, despite not sending DSD natively to the DAC, and downsampling everything DXD down to 192/24. It then became no contest once I tuned up bass management and room correction—the system sounds significantly better than ever before bass management (high-pass filtering the KEF LS50 Meta loudspeakers significantly reduces low frequency distortion at higher playback volumes) or room correction which makes up for room effect problems in my setup.

-Ed

 

[mags65]

Spoke to Sipko at IOM and he can do XLR-only for 10EUR extra, or both, RCA and XLR for 35EUR extra.

He can't do Space Gray though, only Silver. My WiiM is Space Gray, so I suppose I will instead seek out Purifi options since it's not going to be proper match regardless.

-Ed

Space Grey is now on the menu, for an additional EUR 10 (due to paintjob). And the NC252MP seems now to be the only module on offer. Just ordered one for my daughter for xmas, to match her WiiM

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Space Grey is now on the menu, for an additional EUR 10 (due to paintjob). And the NC252MP seems now to be the only module on offer. Just ordered one for my daughter for xmas, to match her WiiM

Thanks so much for the heads up, @mags65 ! I’ve emailed Sipko back to order one in space gray with both, XLR and RCA inputs. So exciting!!!

-Ed

 

[Saponetto]

Thanks all, I can actually feel the lair of the audio-damnation just opening under my wallet...

 

[LuckyLyndy]

Thanks to everyone in assisting me with this WiiM Ultra.

Now, I have to deal with a speaker driver on my ProAc Response 2.5 clones. They don't make that Scan-Speak driver anymore, so...a search for NOS, and probably a call to Madisound to see if a newer model will come close to the specs.
Just got an email from Troels. He agreed and I'm ordering the newer model from Madisound.
One friend said to replace all the drivers, and another friend jokingly sent the link for Troels Gravesen's newest speaker build with Purifi drivers and Hypex bass modules. Nice, but $$$

Purifi-6661

 

[Paffi]

Space Grey is now on the menu, for an additional EUR 10 (due to paintjob). And the NC252MP seems now to be the only module on offer. Just ordered one for my daughter for xmas, to match her WiiM

Wow, that looks gread - now with Purifi oder NXC500 insteat of the old NC252 and I would be tempted to replace my Lux Purifiamp from Apollon....

 

[Deleted member 72219]

Wow, that looks gread - now with Purifi oder NXC500 insteat of the old NC252 and I would be tempted to replace my Lux Purifiamp from Apollon....

Was thinking the same at first, but then the more I thought about it, the more I realized that pushing mere LS50 Metas, I probably would not be able to hear any difference between nCore 252 and the nCoreX 500 or Purifi, especially since I run a subwoofer and high-pass filter the signal to my standmounts.

-Ed