WiiM Pro Plus - Review & Measurements (Streamer)

[staticV3]

I haven't seen so far a complex and reliable analysis of any WiiM in terms of the quality of digital outputs.
Some weaknesses of the WiiM output can be seen on the oscilloscope.

Interesting! Could you please share those oscilloscope readings with us?

 

[onlyoneme]

Interesting! Could you please share those oscilloscope readings with us?

Ok, I'll try to find some time with the Pro and my simple Pico 4444.

 

[Tangband]

Do these measurements tell what was sent by the streamer, or maybe what was sent by the streamer and received by the DAC?
What about the electrical noise on the coaxial output? Anything about it? What about the quality of the output digital signal, is there an eye pattern somewhere for example?

Interesting.
Thank you for the great measurement job you have done for the WiiM units so far.

Can you please show measurements that can back up the claim of any noise coming from the spdif coaxial output ? Anyway, using toslink out there is 0% noise ? Does a better powersupply for the WiiM, like Sbooster, make it measure better from the coaxial spdif output ? We are a couple of 1000 audiophiles that wants to know.

If one uses a separate Dac to the WiiM with an input transformer at the coaxial spdif input, there is for sure galvanic separation = no noise. Like in this Rega Dac R :

—————————————-

This is measurements with an eye-pattern from stereophile regarding the toslink output from WiiM mini :

”The WiiM Mini's TosLink output was bit-accurate. I examined the amount of timing uncertainty—jitter—in the TosLink output using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system's digital oscilloscope function. I overlaid successive snapshots of the Mini's digital output, taken over a 60s time window, to show what's called an "eye pattern." All the pulse transitions in the datastream should overlay one another to produce an image of a wide-open "eye," with just one trace visible. This was the case with the Mini (fig.12) with the original 44.1kHz data plotted over one "unit cycle." The eye is wide open, with no blurring of the leading and trailing edges”

My comments to onlyoneme : Is there a reason to believe that the WiiM pro behaves differently ( worse ) than the mini from its digital outputs ?

 

[morillon]

Interesting.
Thank you for the great measurement job you have done for the WiiM units so far.

Can you please show measurements that can back up any noise coming from the spdif coaxial output ? Anyway, using toslink out there is 0% noise ? Does a better powersupply for the WiiM, like Sbooster, make it measure better from the coaxial spdif output ? We are a couple of 1000 audiophiles that wants to know.

If one uses a separate Dac to the WiiM with an input transformer at the coaxial spdif input, there is for sure galvanic separation = no noise ? Like in this Rega Dac R :

View attachment 325115



( I think that for sound quality there is much more impact than noise, if the spdif output signal are free from any sample rate conversion. )

This is measurements with an eye-pattern from stereophile regarding the toslink output from WiiM mini :

View attachment 325112
”The WiiM Mini's TosLink output was bit-accurate. I examined the amount of timing uncertainty—jitter—in the TosLink output using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system's digital oscilloscope function. I overlaid successive snapshots of the Mini's digital output, taken over a 60s time window, to show what's called an "eye pattern." All the pulse transitions in the datastream should overlay one another to produce an image of a wide-open "eye," with just one trace visible. This was the case with the Mini (fig.12) with the original 44.1kHz data plotted over one "unit cycle." The eye is wide open, with no blurring of the leading and trailing edges”

My comments to onlyoneme : Is there a reason to believe that the WiiM pro behaves differently ( worse ) than the mini from its digital outputs ?

on the net some spdif scope measurements from a pro showed an output that was not very neat, and poorly supported the increase in frequency...(but in general DACs with good input receivers will do well...) wiim will certainly be able to take better care of the buffering on a future version....and this gives reason to the insistence on have a future USB output for recent DACs often concerned....
wiim-linkplay discovers "audio" as it goes...
;-)

 

[Tangband]

on the net some spdif scope measurements from a pro showed an output that was not very neat, and poorly supported the increase in frequency...(but in general DACs with good input receivers will do well...) wiim will certainly be able to take better care of the buffering on a future version....and this gives reason to the insistence on have a future USB output for recent DACs often concerned....
wiim-linkplay discovers "audio" as it goes...
;-)

We need objective measurements for this claim that you make. Maybe those measurements who noone has seen was made deliberately poorly ? I mean, If theres no reason to buy anything more expensive than a WiiM Pro to get highend sound, what happens with the industry ?

What would be the reason to buy a streamer bridge for 10000 bucks If its not sounding any better ? The industry is depending on the myth of expensive audio gear superiority.

 

[morillon]

We need objective measurements for this claim that you make. Maybe those measurements who noone has seen was made deliberately poorly ? I mean, If theres no reason to buy anything more expensive than a WiiM Pro to get high end sound, what happens with the industry ?
What would be the reason to buy a streamer bridge for 10000 bucks If its not any better ? The industry is depending on the myth of expensive audio gear superiority.

the 44 and 96k on a Greek site...but where I agree with you...if we observe a fairly significant degradation at 96k, not a very good sign, the measurement can perhaps be quite tainted by a too weak bw scope.. ..scopes with good bandwidth are necessary in these cases

 

[Tangband]

View attachment 325122
View attachment 325124


the 44 and 96k on a Greek site...but where I agree with you...if we observe a fairly significant degradation at 96k, not a very good sign, the measurement can perhaps be quite tainted by a too weak bw scope.. ..scopes with good bandwidth are necessary in these cases

This is just random pictures. Please link - I want to read all of it - are the reviewer selling expensive gear ?

 

[morillon]

Please link - I want to read all of

in any case in my opinion, it is probably perfectible and invites in the case of a somewhat old DAC to not necessarily increase in frequency...

to find..
the purpose of this site was to find it rather good... from experience I know that with some efforts of buffering etc it is possible to do better.... wiim will perhaps look for more on this point in a future version.. ;-)

 

[Tangband]

in any case in my opinion, it is probably perfectible and invites in the case of a somewhat old DAC to not necessarily increase in frequency...

Again : Where is the link to this test ?

 

[onlyoneme]

Can you please show measurements that can back up the claim of any noise coming from the spdif coaxial output ?

You can see it right now in jitter/noise measurements of GoldenSound for different devices tested. Pro's coax output does not seem to be galvanically isolated, a DC offset can be seen for example.

Anyway, using toslink out there is 0% noise ?

Well, no electrical noise when no electricity.

Does a better powersupply for the WiiM, like Sbooster, make it measure better from the coaxial spdif output ?

I don't think that I've ever seen any direct impact of the PSU on the digital stream quality, regardless of the receiver. In case of the raw output signal, I'll try to check it out.

This is measurements with an eye-pattern from stereophile regarding the toslink output from WiiM mini

TBH it does not look to me like eye patterns taken from fast oscilloscopes.

Is there a reason to believe that the WiiM pro behaves differently ( worse ) than the mini from its digital outputs ?

Not worse. IMO Pros behave slightly better than Minis on digital outputs.

 

[morillon]

Again : Where is the link to this test ?

I understood well...but I have to find it...the link has been circulating...others have it probably...
found

WiiM Pro | Streamer/DAC | Review [avmentor.gr]

WiiM Pro

www.avmentor.gr

 

[ads_cft222]

I don't think Morillon interpreted correctly what he saw or read @Tangband . You can translate the article.

The reviewer praises its performace as a transport. That does not mean is SOTA.

WiiM Pro | Streamer/DAC | Review [avmentor.gr]

WiiM Pro

avmentor.gr

 

[ninetylol]

This is silly, we have perfectly fine and good measurements in this thread and some guy says "but I heard otherwise" without posting any measurements and we even argue?

 

[VintageFlanker]

 

[morillon]

well I just notice that this spdif is not very square (which carries the clock) ;-) and a little limited in level.. I come to a slightly different conclusion.. that's all... ;-)

I don't think Morillon interpreted correctly what he saw or read @Tangband . You can translate the article.

The reviewer praises its performace as a transport. That does not mean is SOTA.

https://avmentor.gr/reviews/2023/wiim_pro_2.htm[/UR

http://

 

[ads_cft222]

well I just notice that this spdif is not very square (which carries the clock) ;-) and a little limited in level.. I come to a slightly different conclusion.. that's all... ;-)

http://

Try to find comparatively a much better square!

 

[Tangband]

You can see it right now in jitter/noise measurements of GoldenSound for different devices tested. Pro's coax output does not seem to be galvanically isolated, a DC offset can be seen for example.

If one uses a Dac with an input transformer on the coaxial spdif input, theres no problem.

Well, no electrical noise when no electricity.

True.

I don't think that I've ever seen any direct impact of the PSU on the digital stream quality, regardless of the receiver. In case of the raw output signal, I'll try to check it out.

I look forward to that.

TBH it does not look to me like eye patterns taken from fast oscilloscopes.

Does one need any faster for music playback ?

Not worse. IMO Pros behave slightly better than Minis on digital outputs.

Good to know.

 

[morillon]

Try to find comparatively a much better square!

output from a CD drive with a small, somewhat neat output stage, and via murata isolation transformer da101.....besides, the measurement is slightly tainted by the use of a somewhat limited scope in bw..(50mhz)⁹

 

[ads_cft222]

output from a CD drive with a small, somewhat neat output stage, and via murata isolation transformer.....besides, the measurement is slightly tainted by the use of a somewhat limited scope in bw..(50mhz)⁹

The scale is totally different. You need to look at the same site to make sure that the method and measuring equipment is the same

 

[morillon]

Does one need any faster for music playback ?

the observation of square signals at such frequencies is directly linked to the bandwidth of the scope ;-)