Why not use effects to get the sound of vinyl?

[Count Arthur]

I know, I mostly feel the same about it. But I try to be empathetic and I'm really interested to understand. I've a friend that doesn't regard any kind of listening to be "serious" unless it involves all that fuss you described. He has the same attitude to watching movies: going to the cinema is the only "right" way. I feel the exact opposite: that going to the cinema is expensive, inconvenient, annoying in very many ways, and often gross. I'm pragmatic and he's romantic.

I get it. Now only having digital sources, I appreciate the convenience, the better, and degredation free sound quality, and won't go back, but I do get it.

This:

Is just an inherently more interesting object than this:

And these:

Are more interesting than these:

I know, that's a bit apples to oranges.

 

[mhardy6647]

I know, that's a bit apples to oranges.

Apples to Nikons?

 

[Count Arthur]

Apples to Nikons?

I didn't spot that - nice one! Much better.

 

[krabapple]

Does everyone remember the fad, circa Portishead's Dummy, for e.g., adding turntable crackle to a modern recording and otherwise purposely trashing its fidelity to make it sound 'analog'?

So cool then. So...quaint, now.

(But not as bad as '80s drums)

 

[Count Arthur]

Does everyone remember the fad, circa Portishead's Dummy, for e.g., adding turntable crackle to a modern recording and otherwise purposely trashing its fidelity to make it sound 'analog'?

So cool then. So...quaint, now.

(But not as bad as '80s drums)

Yes, I've got quite a few albums from that era, including Dummy. Lo-Fi?

(But not as bad as '80s drums)

Agreed.

 

[benanders]

iZotope and others have effects for producing the sound of vinyl playing on a turntable. They allow quite a lot of control introducing the distortions and coloration typical of vinyl production and playback. So why not use that with the convenience of digital source to get the sound of vinyl?

...

Fair question even if rhetorical.
My answer would be, because those sounds which can be digitally induced are at best early-life associations that “go with the music” for me (along the lines of your “it’s not my vinyl” stance, maybe.); at worst they are the very things that = the serious compromises of listening to music in vinyl format.
For old music, some of those first masters just transferred to vinyl better than later digital rehashes - I’ve no idea whether this distinction is real or purely in my head, but the “fun” elements of some songs/albums are just more pleasing than later digital counterparts. Also, a lot of music is only on vinyl, quite literally. And that’s the main reason for the bulk of the vinyl I have.
If I had time to digitize and sell off all the LP’s and 45’s it would be ideal, but my wife and every tactile-fan visitor would disagree, at least for the non-esoteric titles.

Contrary to the appeal @MattHooper described, buying new music on vinyl is totally outside my interest. Most of my stuff is from Japan 1960s-80s, and much of that was obviously recorded and mastered in analogue. My wife got a limited 3rd Man Records press that was 50-50 yellow-black translucent color split, maybe 7-8 years ago, and it would loudly click 2x per revolution, as in far worse than any “picture disc”! Thank you, 3rd Man Records, for insuring I will never again feel compelled by any desire to buy my music in a new vinyl package.*

Seems quite a bit of vinyl now is like some concert merch - it’s billed as collectible to make a subset of consumers go nuts for it. And it seems to be working. Can you imagine 20 years ago thinking someday hundreds or thousands of people would be eagerly waiting to press finger-on-checkout sequence online to get a timed release, limited edition, numbered, tricolor sherbet swirl variant in triple gatefold remaster of some album that originally came out decades before? That, that is why many folks who buy vinyl now probably won’t wish to inflict its compromising characteristics on digital source material as an alternative.
IMO.

*Sadly, the 3MR “click” example is one of many, though perhaps the most extreme of how QC seems to be quite poor despite vinyl production technology purportedly improving (?). Inconsequential to me since I’m outta that part of the game!

 

[benanders]

A big draw of vinyl is its fiddly nature, what with turntables, arms, cartridges, RIAA preamps and the like. Remove that, and for some, a lot of the attraction is gone, especially in settings where the vinyl reproduction equipment is so good that it approaches streaming or other digital sources, in that case, then why bother?

I see this mentioned a lot but I’m not sure how many folks fit into this category, I suspect quite few, really. Visionaries who think a 2-ton TT and a meter-long tonearm are among the stronger strategies in hifi, sure. Whatever portion of modern vinyl users that mentality accounts for.
But…
Many younger people I know (30s down) who wanted to bring back an earliest element in their childhood (or one from before theirs) want no fuss despite the inherent need with TT’s.
I suspect that’s why TT manufacturers aim to have pre-fitted/adjusted cartridges and built-in phono stages, BT, etc. on their “entry level” rigs. What a great name. “Entry level” as in, if you value your music experience, this is only your first step; much headroom awaits in your future purchases, young Padawan!
It would be interesting to know the relationship between (modern) average vinyl user age x setup complexity, for sure.

 

[jsrtheta]

Does everyone remember the fad, circa Portishead's Dummy, for e.g., adding turntable crackle to a modern recording and otherwise purposely trashing its fidelity to make it sound 'analog'?

So cool then. So...quaint, now.

(But not as bad as '80s drums)

That was a fad I couldn't wait to end.

A lot of otherwise great music was destroyed by the whole "Let's make it sound like it's a vinyl record!" nonsense. It only made what started out as intriguing new music sound like crap.

 

[Cbdb2]

Out of curiosity, do have the same opinion of anyone who wears anything but a digital watch?

These days watches are just jewelry, they don't even need to run. So I have a pocket watch. Wondering when tube TVs are going to make a comeback.

 

[JiiPee]

- OP: Why not use effects to get the sound of vinyl?
- Me: Why not use IT to get the sound of modern digital players?

As we have read often on this forum, a big part of the charm of vinyl record playing is the interaction with the vinyl player: Taking the record from it's sleeve, putting it on the platter, lovingly handling the tonearm... It seems to me that many of us like to use vinyl player not because of the better sound, but rather regardless of the inferior sound.

Why not get the best of the both worlds - the interaction with the vinyl player and the sound quality available from digital technology. With modern technology it should not be impossible. Just integrate few sensors, a small digital camera, a small computer with network connection, and a dac to the player. The sensors indicate the position of the tonearm, and therefore the track that is to be played, and starts the camera, the camera takes a picture of the record label and feeds the image to the computer that uses image processing and AI to figure out what record and track is to be played, the computer streams the song from selected source and feeds it to the integrated dac that provides the analog output. The cartridge wires are actually not connected anywhere.

The result: You get all the interaction with the good old vinyl player, but the music is played via streaming from Your favorite digital source. Surely this innovation is going to make me a millionaire?

 

[MattHooper]

I get it. Now only having digital sources, I appreciate the convenience, the better, and degredation free sound quality, and won't go back, but I do get it.

This:

View attachment 345810

Is just an inherently more interesting object than this:

View attachment 345811

Yup. For me anyway.

I think my turntable is hella cool, and fun to look at and interact with. I appreciate it every time I use it.

My DAC is just a non-descript black box that just sits there and does it's thing in the background. Convenient, but not exactly fun or interesting in a "cool gear" way, IMO.

 

[pderousse]

Why shouldn't I add a PC to my rig, download a distortion app, figure a way to stream into the PC, and then output to my preamp so I can get some approximation of the effect of the same vinyl album I already own, or of some ('idealized') effect of the album I do not own? There is a poem by Robert Frost you may be familar with. Cool thing is that with a preamp, you can A/B between the roads and with that answer your rhetorical question.

 

[Axo1989]

Yes, I've got quite a few albums from that era, including Dummy. Lo-Fi?

Agreed.

A like for your examples, but not for the @krabby sentiment. I mean, it's lo-fi, but it's the real thing, yes?

Does everyone remember the fad, circa Portishead's Dummy, for e.g., adding turntable crackle to a modern recording and otherwise purposely trashing its fidelity to make it sound 'analog'?

What "fidelity" exactly are you imagining went missing from any of these trip hop classics when some analog grunge was baked in? I mean shoegaze has more distortion, but when did anyone want Bristol sound to go hi-fi? If you don't like the music that's another thing, but that has nothing to do with fidelity.

 

[dasdoing]

I've always suspected that Izotope vinyl is a bit tongue-in-cheek. As far as I know it's there only free plug-in. I wonder if it was introduced on April fools day...

It could be useful as a movie sound effect it you don't have the exact record to play.

lo-fi music....yea, there is a genre that wants to sound the opposite of hi-fi lol

 

[Count Arthur]

A like for your examples, but not for the @krabby sentiment. I mean, it's lo-fi, but it's the real thing, yes?

I was thinking of lo-fi as a genre.

There are so many genres and sub-genres, especially in electronic music, these day; it's hard to keep up with exactly what fits where.

House
Hard House
Acid House
Techno
Hip-hop
Trip-hop
Garage
Jungle
Drum and Bass
Synthwave
Chillwave
Vapourwave
Trance
Ambient
Chill-out
Dubstep
Big Beat
Breakbeat
Downtempo

And more Amen Break than you can shake a stick at.

 

[bluefuzz]

adding turntable crackle to a modern recording and otherwise purposely trashing its fidelity

I'm pretty sure in the case of Portishead the crackle is a real analogue turntable being manipulated by a real live DJ/turntablist type human. It's not a digital effect added later.

 

[Timcognito]

My DAC is just a non-descript black box that just sits there and does it's thing in the background. Convenient, but not exactly fun or interesting in a "cool gear" way, IMO.

Just your desired, clear and uninterrupted music at a press of a button with full control from a single dashboard. Music and nothing else, now that's a concept.

 

[somebodyelse]

This research went to great lengths to find out what (if anything) accounted for the preference for vinyl. Spoiler: it wasn't the sound, which was rated worst in controlled tests. Using effects to make your recordings sound worse seems a bad idea. Differences in mastering were controlled out, so the possibility remains that in some cases the vinyl master is better than the CD one, but I doubt effects are going to make up for that either.

 

[MattHooper]

Just your desired, clear and uninterrupted music at a press of a button with full control from a single dashboard. Music and nothing else, now that's a concept.

My wife could make the same case for just using her smart speaker.

Everyone here is fixated on the gear, just different ways. ;-)

 

[Timcognito]

My wife could make the same case for just using her smart speaker.

Everyone here is fixated on the gear, just different ways. ;-)

My wife, the same and she ignores my proclivity for accurate sound but understands my desire for ease of use. She can operate all three of our other systems at a touch of button from her iPad, and occasionally does, but seems to prefer her Bluetooth speaker.