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Why do records sound so much better than digital?

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levimax

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I very much find the idea of spending thousands if not ten's of thousands of dollars on vinyl gear right up there
with spending the same on power cords, USB cords, and all the rest of the useless toys
Double strawman in one sentence :). It does not have to cost ten's of thousands of dollars to play vinyl and the reality is vinyl as a hobby has paid for it's self with the increases in prices for both TT's and especially LP's. LP's and TT's are not the same thing as cables and power cords.
 

mhardy6647

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Definitely need more than just an engine and tranny swap. You'd basically be replacing or very heavily modifying everything but the body, but that's the most important part so no big deal.

Kinda like this awesome audio related resto-mod.



What's the turntable equivalent of this?
I guess one'd have to embed a raspberry pi in a turntable. Maybe a Garrard 301.

Bonus points if the display uses flashing dots on the turntable and relies on turntable rotation & the persistence of vision to be readable.
:cool:

You know, like this.


or this (more in keeping with the retro resto mod theme)




There clearly are clever people in the world.
 
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IPunchCholla

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Definitely need more than just an engine and tranny swap. You'd basically be replacing or very heavily modifying everything but the body, but that's the most important part so no big deal.

Kinda like this awesome audio related resto-mod.



What's the turntable equivalent of this?
The Puffin?
 

Sal1950

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But the truth isn't good enough for you. You want everyone to comply with what you've decided is the appropriate path.
Not in the least, I'm sorry you feel that way
 

MattHooper

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I agree. My point was more in acknowledging our own built in cognitive biases, but instead of lamenting them, using them to our own advantage. We know people’s brains change in such a way when they are told how rare and expensive a bottle of wine is, that they taste the wine as more pleasurable than if they are told it is cheap wine. Rather than saying “that’s dumb” we should view it as a tool to increase our pleasure in wine. Maybe by marketing 3 buck Chuck as another brand, but marked off 99%?

Yes...I agree with your general point! It's entirely rational to consider the effects of cognitive bias in our choices.

Though note that the wine example involves some deceit. If for instance people are given a cheap wine, but told it is rare and expensive, it creates false beliefs in the individual which, yes can influence their perception. But it's important it's a false belief, and it's still reasonable to care about true vs false beliefs, and distinguish them.

On that note, I think we should be careful about implying that all the reasons one may like vinyl involves self-deception, or a misunderstanding of reality. For instance, when I find looking at and holding a record more satisfying than flicking through songs on my iphone, or that I find my turntable a more compelling and interesting object to interact with than my black box DAC, I am not deceived about that experience, in the way suggested in the wine example. It's more like "I enjoy chocolate ice cream more than vanilla, so the reasonable thing is for me to order the chocolate ice cream."


I don’t think there is anything irrational in my listening to vinyl. I look at it as a tool to use my own cognitive biases to occasionally get deeper pleasure from listening to certain music.

Yup. The experience matters. And remember that, even among the cohort that sometimes spins vinyl, some people will get more pleasures out of it than others. So for instance, one person may like spinning vinyl as a sort of nostalgic experience, though generally doesn't like the physical hassle of vinyl and doesn't play it much. Where, what is a deficit to that person may be a value to another, who enjoys the physical aspects and "demands" of vinyl.
(For instance: I loath having to align my cartridge, and do it as rarely as possible, but some positively enjoy it!)
 

Jimi Floyd

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Definitely need more than just an engine and tranny swap. You'd basically be replacing or very heavily modifying everything but the body, but that's the most important part so no big deal.

Kinda like this awesome audio related resto-mod.



What's the turntable equivalent of this?
Ha! great!
 

IPunchCholla

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I guess one'd have to embed a raspberry pi in a turntable. Maybe a Garrard 301.

Bonus points if the display used flashing dots on the turntable and relied on turntable rotation & the persistence of vision to be readable.
:cool:

You know, like this.


or this (more in keeping with the retro resto mod theme)




There clearly are clever people in the world.
Hmmm. I’m going to think about doing this somehow. Might be a fun project for the CNC machine coming in a couple of weeks.
Yes...I agree with your general point! It's entirely rational to consider the effects of cognitive bias in our choices.

Though note that the wine example involves some deceit. If for instance people are given a cheap wine, but told it is rare and expensive, it creates false beliefs in the individual which, yes can influence their perception. But it's important it's a false belief, and it's still reasonable to care about true vs false beliefs, and distinguish them.

On that note, I think we should be careful about implying that all the reasons one may like vinyl involves self-deception, or a misunderstanding of reality. For instance, when I find looking at and holding a record more satisfying than flicking through songs on my iphone, or that I find my turntable a more compelling and interesting object to interact with than my black box DAC, I am not deceived about that experience, in the way suggested in the wine example. It's more like "I enjoy chocolate ice cream more than vanilla, so the reasonable thing is for me to order the chocolate ice cream."




Yup. The experience matters. And remember that, even among the cohort that sometimes spins vinyl, some people will get more pleasures out of it than others. So for instance, one person may like spinning vinyl as a sort of nostalgic experience, though generally doesn't like the physical hassle of vinyl and doesn't play it much. Where, what is a deficit to that person may be a value to another, who enjoys the physical aspects and "demands" of vinyl.
(For instance: I loath having to align my cartridge, and do it as rarely as possible, but some positively enjoy it!)
thats why I have a T4P cartridge/arm. No alignment possible! But weirdly, I really like using the carbon brush before playing an LP.
 

Sal1950

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It's now how I feel, it's what you write.
What have I said about vinyl that isn't completely honest?
The whole vinyl revival has been build on a pile of lies and half truths put out by the
lamestream media. All the talk about the glorious, (non-staircased) beautiful analog sound
being the pinnacle for audio reproduction
Look at the BS Mobile Fidelity has been passing off on the public. ROTFLMAO
 

MattHooper

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What have I said about vinyl that isn't completely honest?
The whole vinyl revival has been build on a pile of lies and half truths put out by the
lamestream media. All the talk about the glorious, (non-staircased) beautiful analog sound
being the pinnacle for audio reproduction
Look at the BS Mobile Fidelity has been passing off on the public. ROTFLMAO

If you are only talking about those vinyl-fanatics out in the wild who promote myths, fine and dandy. But be clear.

The problem is you seem to be aiming your vitriol at ASR members who play vinyl as well. In which case you are continuing to wail at strawmen.
 

Sal1950

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If you are only talking about those vinyl-fanatics out in the wild who promote myths, fine and dandy. But be clear.

The problem is you seem to be aiming your vitriol at ASR members who play vinyl as well. In which case you are continuing to wail at strawmen.


New members come here daily looking for the honest, unwavering truth on building a quality HiFi rig.
They deserve not to be brainwashed.
 

Mart68

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the reality is vinyl as a hobby has paid for it's self with the increases in prices for both TT's and especially LP's. LP's and TT's
You've got a point there, my vinyl collection has performed a lot better than my pension fund over the past ten years. My only regret is that I didn't buy more of it.

I'm changing my stance. I now think everyone should get out there and buy vinyl. especially second-hand copies of 1970s stuff - don't forget it's proper all analogue not like those modern re-pressings by Mobile Fidelity and so forth, with that nasty digital step that ruins everything.

Let's get the price of old vinyl into the stratosphere!
 

MattHooper

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If you are only talking about those vinyl-fanatics out in the wild who promote myths, fine and dandy. But be clear.

The problem is you seem to be aiming your vitriol at ASR members who play vinyl as well. In which case you are continuing to wail at strawmen.

New members come here daily looking for the honest, unwavering truth on building a quality HiFi rig.
They deserve not to be brainwashed.


Which, again, suggests you are seeing strawmen instead of real people.

Why worry about people coming to ASR - of all places! - to get brainwashed with myths about vinyl?

Does this not seem a rather misplaced sense of worry, to say the least?

Who here is actually brainwashing anyone to accept myths or untruths about vinyl?
 

Sal1950

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Why worry about people coming to ASR - of all places! - to get brainwashed with myths about vinyl?
You talk about a strawmen.
I would hope when they come here they learn the truth, whether about cables, grounding boxes, widgets, or vinyl.
If what you really want is a SOTA HiFi, they're all a waste of money.
Spend yours as you please.
 

Sal1950

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