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Why are we here?

digicidal

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I have all the kit I will ever need this lifetime so am not planning to buy anything more (that doesn't mean I won't though :()

That moment of nirvana where everything you need is actually sufficient... it's something I aspire to, but will probably never achieve (if I'm honest). :facepalm:
 

eliash

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The new C8 Corvette, Awesome!
See the USA in Your Chevrolet :)

One reason why I am here (and not on the fast track)...this looks like southern Arizona...remember a Sheriff down there some 30y ago instructing me urgently that this is not the German Autobahn...the sound from my stereo is sometimes similarly thrilling, but less expensive...
 

murraycamp

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Why am I here?

1. I heard you guys were giving out free Nordost Odin power cables.
2. Electrosmog
 

thefsb

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I ask the question in the broadest sense, looking for an answer that goes beyond the specific information available in this excellent forum. In other words, how did the quality of music playback become so important to us? Or, is it just gear acquisition syndrome?

I'm glad you asked! I think a few things combine to explain it.
  1. I am trained as electronic engineer, have facility in quantitative analysis, and have worked most of my life in engineering jobs, many of then extremely complex. Now I run my own software company.
  2. Music has been my passion since adolescence. As a teenager I was listening to Joe Pass and Stockhausen as well as the more usual fare like Zappa, Priest, Pistols. On and off I've been an improvising musician, electronic composer, and band leader. I did a weekly radio show for nearly 10 years focusing on 20th-century composition and experimental music. Not my software business is all about music.
  3. I've experienced many wonderful music performances, some of them in very good acoustic spaces, others not and the life-changing ones had great sound. I can tell the difference.
  4. The same as 3 is true also when listening to electronic equipment with loudspeakers, be it performance equipment, sound reinforcement or playback equipment.
  5. I have a large collection of recordings that need to be played on something, so I need some gear and I know that the kind of sound I want can't easily be had without costs in the thousands.
  6. The ideology and business of "audiophile" has, through all this time, frustrated my ability buy a decent stereo and thinking about that makes me angry.
I'm here because it has helped me understand my options and to focus my attention on information that is likely to be relevant. Now I feel better able to apply my technical skills to the engineering problem of equipping our home for music. In another topic I recently expressed my gratitude for this. It was a breakthrough to see a way out of the audiophile fog.

To be clear, I am not into gear. I want to enjoy listening to music. I'd rather be talking about music than about gear. With a bit of luck my current upgrade project will be a success and then I imagine I'll spend less time here.
 

Vovgan

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is it just gear acquisition syndrome?

For me - yes, conversion to the Gospel of SINAD solved the grounding problem for my satisfaction with my gear.

Plus it takes away most of the anxiety and doubts from the purchasing decisions.

Looking forward to seeing speaker reviews here, and hope to see more reviews of expensive AVR’s and amplifiers. And the long promised Part 3 of the room correction advice!
 
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MattHooper

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I notice some relevant autobiographies being entered here, and I never did do an "introduction" post in the other forum section, so I'll just add a bit of mine:

I grew up in a very musical family. My father was a jazz musician and led many bands, ultimately becoming a much loved and highly successful high school music teacher. He did all the charts for the bands and his concert and stage bands toured the country often winning many prizes.
Our house was filled with instruments - 3 pianos (four if you count an old 17th century model), drums, electric bass, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, keyboards, all the instruments my dad would play: trumpet, trombone, clarinet, alto/tenor sax, flute, and others. Everyone played music.
I played sax, piano, then added drums, guitar/bass, synth. My brother became a musician and his bands always practiced in the house.
It's incredibly the sheer volume of sound my mother regularly put up with, not to mention the neighbors! (Our neighbors actually told us numerous times they loved living near our house for all the music that was constantly emanating from our windows).

Anyway...I loved sound itself from an early age. I bought a tape recorder when I was in grade 7 or so, and used to just record interesting sounds.
Sometimes I'd just go out and record a walk around my neighborhood to listen to it as I went to sleep. Something about being able to re-experience some slice if time through capturing the sounds I heard was captivating to me.

I segued from drawing/painting/playing music to wanting to make movies, and ended up going to film school. Though I worked in various capacities in film, ultimately my path led me to doing sound editing/sound design for film and TV. That made sense given my life-long love of sound and recording. That's been my gig for the last 30 years. (And playing in a band off and on over that time).

My dad was something of an audiophile as well, and I'll never forget when he brought home Kef 105.2 speakers and Carver amps (including the preamp with Carvers "holographic" sound). I'd marvel at the imaging and richness of the sound and we were the envy of all our friends. Earth Wind And Fire sounded astounding in that set up. That's obviously where I got the bug and I retained my Dad's nice Technics turntable for years afterward. Once I started making enough money in the mid 90's I got in to high end audio big time, reading all the subjectivist mags, buying lots of equipment. But I always had a strong rational/empirical side and always took the more dubious or controversial audio claims with a big grain of salted skepticism. Along those lines, when i was offered a gig doing reviews for a fledgling on-line audio mag, I stuck to reviewing speakers and refused to review cables/amps/tweaks. My conscience wouldn't allow it ;-)

I've had a bad case of Tinnitus since the mid 90's (so much loud noise exposure growing up, playing in bands, concerts, etc), but worse was acquiring Hyperacusis - extreme sensitivity to sound, making every day sounds extra loud and painful - around 2000. That was soul-crushing for someone whose life and career revolved around sound. It gradually got better over time, thankfully. But a bad noise exposure last fall brought it crashing back, worse than ever, and boy has that been miserable. I've been undergoing a treatment that seems to be working well, and I'm almost back to normal at this point. And, generally, speaking, given I am working in sound all day long, doing shoot-ups, car crashes, monster attacks and what have you, by the end of the day my ears are not looking for more aggressive sound. That's one reason why I seek a more "organic, rich, relaxed" presentation in both my 2 channel and my own home theater sound.

I've been fascinated by "real vs reproduced" sound the whole time, and so I'm constantly comparing the two. Years ago I did recordings of familiar sounds - me playing my acoustic guitar, my kids practicing their sax/trombone, my family's voices, to do live vs reproduced comparisons on various speakers I've had through my place. (I'd also play them sometimes when auditioning speakers elsewhere). Lots of fun!
 

617

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I'm always surprised to see people cite a love of music as the reason they get onto a forum which measures infinitesimal noise levels in DACs.

I like music, so much that I don't listen to it at work, but my love of music itself is the motivation for playing musical instruments and learning to read music, not my motivation for being here.

For me I have always liked making things which amaze me and impress others, and few objects do that like good speakers do. Unlike visual simulations from televisions or photographs, reproduced sound can be uncannily realistic. If we could reproduce images convincingly I might be more interested in that, but as it stands, sound is what we can do best. Notice I say sound, not music. Music is great to listen to, but I also enjoy the experience of ambient noises or speech being reproduced with realism.

I'm here because tangential to loudspeakers are electronics, and so I've tried to get a playback system which approaches the state of the art for as little money as possible (and is as small as possible). I have a topping d30, an atom as a preamp, an IcePower amp (in for tests now) and a bunch of FLAC files. Simplifying this front end stuff enables me to focus on speakers in rooms, which is where all the magic is.
 

JeffS7444

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I developed an allergy to hearing rhetoric passed off as fact and started catching flack on some audiophile boards so I knew it was time to leave.

I prefer automobiles as optional lifestyle choices. I like a nice-handling automobile as much as the next person, but I'd have a tough time understanding the point in owning an exotic and not driving it.
 

BostonJack

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One of the best handling cars in the world. It's light and near perfectly balanced. Put some R tires on it and the fun never ends. The C8 corvette is impressive, but it is at least 1,000 lbs. too heavy. Sure it has enough power to move all that weight, and it holds the road well. But that mass makes it less nimble, slowing down transitions in the slalom & switchbacks. Sadly, this is a trend with modern high performance cars being much too heavy. A car 1,000 lbs. lighter with the same P/W ratio will be just as quick and far more nimble.
hahaha, I love my 2013 FRS, it is very nimble, somewhat underpowered, but hey, I do a lot of daily driving with it and, honestly, the chassis is much better than I am and driving the speed limit in a crisp chassis is a lot of fun. Plus, its noisy. They could have made the cabin as quiet as an Audi by adding 300 pounds of sound deadening material but, then, you'd have a 3100 to 3200 pound car. The road to perdition is paved with 'small' luxury additions.
 

thefsb

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Let me quote Greggery Peccary:

GREGGERY:
Life is so much better
When there's some little something to do!

NARRATOR:
Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you, hmm?

Kurt Vonnegut: “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don’t let anybody tell you different.”
 

thefsb

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Why am I here.
1. I've enjoyed music for as long as I can remember. I was probably around 10 when I noticed that some sources sounded better than others, that began my path to better gear. I enjoy music and the better it sounds the more I enjoy it.
2. It was probably around 1980-90s that I realized that the subjective world and it's magazines were FOS, that Peter Aczel was right on and much of the high end world was just trying to fleece my wallet.
3. As I became more of a hard core objectivist I felt more and more displaced in the majority of high fidelity media. Just after Amir started ASR one of my friends @Blumlein 88 pointed me here and the rest is history.
4. I have little real tech knowledge but enjoy spending time and learning from the people here that have the know-all to help me learn.

Thanks to @Blumlein 88 in this post I found a way forwards in my decision process. I was stuck without a way to integrate (a) measurements, (b) fidelity (to what exactly? and why should do i care?), (c) real life listening, which for us is nothing like audiophile listening, into a coherent, reasonable plan.
 

thefsb

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I'm always surprised to see people cite a love of music as the reason they get onto a forum which measures infinitesimal noise levels in DACs.

When it comes to subsystems like DACs and amps the value of the measurements to a music lover like me is knowing that the performance of such-and-such a device is not a concern. Problem solved. Move on to something else.
 

MRC01

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... Plus, its noisy. They could have made the cabin as quiet as an Audi by adding 300 pounds of sound deadening material but, then, you'd have a 3100 to 3200 pound car. The road to perdition is paved with 'small' luxury additions.
I'm of the Colin Chapman philosophy that subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere, and more nimble. The most fun car I raced in SCCA had no spare tire, no bumpers, no airbags, no locks (or exterior handles, or glass) on the doors, no roof, no air conditioning, no chambered mufflers (just glasspacks), carbon fiber & drilled aluminum interior, manual everything. But it was street legal.
As for modern sports cars being too heavy, the Lotus Exige is the rare exception that proves the rule.
 

MattHooper

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I like a nice-handling automobile as much as the next person, but I'd have a tough time understanding the point in owning an exotic and not driving it.

(Not that I want to contribute to a thread turning in to a car thread. I'm not a car guy so that bores me to tears. But...)

What puzzles me just as much as those who would buy an exotic/sports car and not drive it, are those that DO drive them. I mean, you buy this car with some monster engine that can do a bazzillion miles per hour and do it 60 MPH in 3 seconds, and meanwhile you are driving (likely) in a city that restricts it's use! You have to drive the same relatively slow speed as everyone else and most of your horsepower is just wasted. And what else are you doing? Attempting to drag race people at street lights? Every time I see a guy driving a super sports car, especially in the city, all I think of is "nice looking car, what a waste."
 

RayDunzl

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What puzzles me just as much as those who would buy an exotic/sports car and not drive it, are those that DO drive them. I mean, you buy this car with some monster engine that can do a bazzillion miles per hour and do it 60 MPH in 3 seconds, and meanwhile you are driving (likely) in a city that restricts it's use! You have to drive the same relatively slow speed as everyone else and most of your horsepower is just wasted.

I was walking in Chicago, and the street was filled with yellow taxis. But I could hear vroooom-bap-bap-bap-vroooom-bap-bap-bap so I started looking.

Couldn't see it, figured it was too low behind the cabs.

vroooom-bap-bap-bap-vroooom-bap-bap-bap but louder

Then I saw it... I don't remember the make, like Ferrari or Lambo, but I remember the color.

Same color as all the taxis.

1575511021131.png
 

MRC01

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... What puzzles me just as much as those who would buy an exotic/sports car and not drive it, are those that DO drive them. I mean, you buy this car with some monster engine that can do a bazzillion miles per hour and do it 60 MPH in 3 seconds, and meanwhile you are driving (likely) in a city that restricts it's use! ...
This is what SCCA amateur racing is all about. Get your fast machine out on a course where you can drive it the way it was meant to be driven. And learn the skills while having fun and not endangering others or getting tickets.

Then there is the guy who owns a (insert fast car here) because he always wanted one since he was a kid. It makes him happy in a different way even though he doesn't really know how to drive it. I understand this, but it's just not me. Seems like a waste of a car. Like having a bazillion watt stereo and never turning it up past 2. Or using your nice expensive stereo and painstakingly prepared room to listen to overprocessed compressed pop recordings.
 

Frank Dernie

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(Not that I want to contribute to a thread turning in to a car thread. I'm not a car guy so that bores me to tears. But...)

What puzzles me just as much as those who would buy an exotic/sports car and not drive it, are those that DO drive them. I mean, you buy this car with some monster engine that can do a bazzillion miles per hour and do it 60 MPH in 3 seconds, and meanwhile you are driving (likely) in a city that restricts it's use! You have to drive the same relatively slow speed as everyone else and most of your horsepower is just wasted. And what else are you doing? Attempting to drag race people at street lights? Every time I see a guy driving a super sports car, especially in the city, all I think of is "nice looking car, what a waste."
I have a sports car. I wouldn't dream of driving it in a city. Mind you in Oxfordshire the increase in traffic over the last 40 years means I don't drive it much at all. I used to drive it to visit my daughter in North Wales, brilliant on the A5 old coach road, but now she has children I take a car with more seats so I can take them places. I should sell it.
 

Gedeon

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Hi everyone.

I'm here, because these places put a clear barrier between subjective perceptions and objective numbers. I mean, these kind of on-line digital sciencific warriors, like @amirm and other reviewers (and archimago, with different approach) help us to make better decisions in the pursuit of "good listening experience" putting aside emotional opinions and subjective experiences as much as possible. Different recordings, preferences, music, rooms, ears, brains, focus, personal beliefs, training, experience, age, economy, gear, goals, interests, etc... make tons of subjective reviews difficult to trust.

Very difficult in this industry in which, for several decades, in the search to get a better listening experience, for most of us, the only path had to cross a desert of wasted money, snake oil sellers, and no-sense reviewers, untiringly trying to make us think we're 'special' because we could hear things the rest of people can't.

I like to compare this industry with wristwatch makers. You can get a very reliable and precise gear with not too much money (let's say $100), so if you pay a lot more, better do realize in which "improvements" are you putting your money. ¿ Aesthetics ? Sure. ¿ Social symbols ? High chances. ¿ Reliability ? Maybe... But not really in the real and basic purpose of the piece you are paying for.

And the OP is right. Once you reach a certain point, even measurable and objective improvements won't be perceived, and music will be equally enjoyable in "sub-perfect' gear due to our own limits as human beings.
 
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