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What's a good headphone for an OTL tube amp?

olds1959special

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What's a good headphone for my Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL MK3 amp? I'm currently using DT990-600's and am considering Sennheiser HD650's since I'm looking for a darker sound. Is there anything else I should be looking for?
 
At 600-Ohms, I found my DT990s good for plugging into my A/V receiver, home theater like sound :)
Also guess a tube amp adds some nice favor(?) to 600-Ohm headphones :)
Seem to be good prices on used Massdrop HD6XX model.
 
ZMF Atrium :)
 
What's a good headphone for my Antique Sound Lab MG-Head OTL MK3 amp? I'm currently using DT990-600's and am considering Sennheiser HD650's since I'm looking for a darker sound. Is there anything else I should be looking for?
EQ not an option ?
Passive filter removing the 'mount Beyer' treble peak not an option ?

HD650 will do fine on an OTL and is more 'neutral', the DT990 is more 'fun'
 
HD650 is a classic for a reason and a damn fine option. Another one is the Audio Technica ATH-R70X.
 
HD650 is a classic for a reason and a damn fine option. Another one is the Audio Technica ATH-R70X.
I got the HD650's today and they sound great! I can turn them up more without as much fatigue and the sound is very immersive.

EDIT:

I found an old HD650 cable I made from Mogami 2543. I plugged it in and felt a possible improvement.
 
Last edited:
considering Sennheiser HD650's since I'm looking for a darker sound
going from beyer to 650 is gonna be like going from Everest to the bottom of the ocean. Usually you wanna buy the amp for the headphones not the other way around but if you've got the amp and are looking for headphones personally I'd recommend the 600 over 650 since it's not as dark and is a fantastic headphone, it's as popular as it is for a reason
 
I'd recommend the HS33, as used by the USAF :)
usaf_headset_hs33_792179.jpg
 
I'm back to using my DT 990 - 600 ohms with my OTL tube headphone amp, but I'm using my Sennheisers too, just with a different amp. I found the OTL amp boosted the bass too much and so I use a Topping L50 instead for the HD650's.
 
I wonder what the frequency response of the amp/headphone combo actually is. Likely much different than the anecdotes.
Same for the cable illusion, except many orders of magnitude lower than the OTL/headphone interaction.
All of this sounds like a money pit. Which is quite the opposite of what ASR was about.
Of course no discussion of DSP or things that actually change the sound, and are for the most part free.
Unfortunately the site is now dominated by this superbestfriends and goodsoundclub type of nonsense. There have always been so many bogus sound websites, so few that value objective discussions of actual changes in sound. ASR now in a flat spin and rapidly spiraling to an end state of total nonsense.
 
I wonder what the frequency response of the amp/headphone combo actually is. Likely much different than the anecdotes.
Same for the cable illusion, except many orders of magnitude lower than the OTL/headphone interaction.
All of this sounds like a money pit. Which is quite the opposite of what ASR was about.
Of course no discussion of DSP or things that actually change the sound, and are for the most part free.
Unfortunately the site is now dominated by this superbestfriends and goodsoundclub type of nonsense. There have always been so many bogus sound websites, so few that value objective discussions of actual changes in sound. ASR now in a flat spin and rapidly spiraling to an end state of total nonsense.
I love total nonsense - it’s fun.
 
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I love total nonsense - it’s fun.
You are good. But at some point nonsense and Audio Science are somewhat incompatible and become extremely costly and confusing, and very unfun.

There is well established science on what actually changes with cables (the changes are actually measurable with sensitive enough gear, but many orders of magnitude lower than our hearing's ability to discern).
Same for various amp topologies. There is a great test involving many amps, including the legendary Futterman OTL, where nobody can tell the difference between the Futterman, a Class A Levinson, and a raft of other amps including a Pioneer receiver. Page 78 below:
https://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1987-01.pdf
I worked in a shop that sold Levinson. Zero percent surprising, nobody in our shop and none of our customers could tell if I swapped a Niles install amplifier for an Audio Research or a Carver. This was 1987, solid state amps have gotten even better since then. Tube amps for the most part have regressed, despite what the industry would lead you to believe. The studies by David L. Clark also illustrate the fact that if you have a tube amp that is actually audibly different, it is likely not working like an amplifier of voltage, or just has high output impedance and alters the frequency response, or it hisses loud enough and you have sensitive speakers. He published lots of papers on this. If we want to revisit his work, best to join AES, do some research, publish some findings. Start with Clark's survey of ten years of A/B/X results:
Use the same plan if there is a desire to challenge Ohm's law.

There are so many other things, like the studies on actual audibility thresholds.
Also well established science on sighted listening.
Even science on how distributions of preference in our population.

Fun is one thing. But the odd and very expensive shape the audio industry has taken is not really that fun. Makes good sound strangely inaccessible to many people, despite the fact that good sound is actually available for cheap these days, and changes and improvements in sound are often free (for instance, I can't tell the difference between PEQ applied with free software vs. expensive outboard DSP). Yet we sill have horrible speakers that cost a ton, electronics that add nothing despite what we are led to believe. And we have companies selling kit with all sorts of unreliability, from firmware to hardware. It's even more troubling to me that many of the modern tube products ignore good safety practices, don't get me started...

Lots of places already exist for nonsense, goodsoundclub comes to mind, and is really quite fun. But they really aren't fun if you have any budget constraints and if your goals include good sound reproduction.
 
I found the DT990's have too much treble for a balanced sound, even with my OTL tube amp. I started using my HD650's. I found I could get a better sound with the 650's by lowering the dac level to about 80 and boosting the amp level as needed. Maybe I was overloading the input a bit. The SMSL DL200 has a pretty hot output (2.5volts) at max power. I still feel the 650's are a bit on the bass-y side but it's better than having too much treble.
 
You are good. But at some point nonsense and Audio Science are somewhat incompatible and become extremely costly and confusing, and very unfun.

There is well established science on what actually changes with cables (the changes are actually measurable with sensitive enough gear, but many orders of magnitude lower than our hearing's ability to discern).
Same for various amp topologies. There is a great test involving many amps, including the legendary Futterman OTL, where nobody can tell the difference between the Futterman, a Class A Levinson, and a raft of other amps including a Pioneer receiver. Page 78 below:
https://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-HiFI-Stereo/80s/HiFi-Stereo-Review-1987-01.pdf
I worked in a shop that sold Levinson. Zero percent surprising, nobody in our shop and none of our customers could tell if I swapped a Niles install amplifier for an Audio Research or a Carver. This was 1987, solid state amps have gotten even better since then. Tube amps for the most part have regressed, despite what the industry would lead you to believe. The studies by David L. Clark also illustrate the fact that if you have a tube amp that is actually audibly different, it is likely not working like an amplifier of voltage, or just has high output impedance and alters the frequency response, or it hisses loud enough and you have sensitive speakers. He published lots of papers on this. If we want to revisit his work, best to join AES, do some research, publish some findings. Start with Clark's survey of ten years of A/B/X results:
Use the same plan if there is a desire to challenge Ohm's law.

There are so many other things, like the studies on actual audibility thresholds.
Also well established science on sighted listening.
Even science on how distributions of preference in our population.

Fun is one thing. But the odd and very expensive shape the audio industry has taken is not really that fun. Makes good sound strangely inaccessible to many people, despite the fact that good sound is actually available for cheap these days, and changes and improvements in sound are often free (for instance, I can't tell the difference between PEQ applied with free software vs. expensive outboard DSP). Yet we sill have horrible speakers that cost a ton, electronics that add nothing despite what we are led to believe. And we have companies selling kit with all sorts of unreliability, from firmware to hardware. It's even more troubling to me that many of the modern tube products ignore good safety practices, don't get me started...

Lots of places already exist for nonsense, goodsoundclub comes to mind, and is really quite fun. But they really aren't fun if you have any budget constraints and if your goals include good sound reproduction.
I love good value audio electronics. There is no reason for me to buy anything else. My tube pre-amp and headphone amp are "vintage" (1980's and 2000's era - and both budget designs) but none of my other gear is.
 
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