What would room temperature superconductivity do for audio?

[computer-audiophile]

Yes, I have also read it. The material should be suitable, for example, to make cables or conductors for PCBs out of it. I don't see that at the moment.

I still find the subject quite exciting, because over thirty years ago I once helped to set up a measurement laboratory for high-temperature superconductors in the corporate research department of an electrical corporation of international renown, but I have forgotten at what temperatures our samples at that time became superconducting. It was still pretty cold.

 

[mhardy6647]

*If* it happens at room temperature with a conductor that is not made out of $$$$ unobtanium, it wouldn't have to be so from a bill of materials point of view - but you're probably right and they'd find a way to justify a big whopping price tag - nothing is new under the sun. :-D

There is nothing like a technological breakthrough to justify a price increase

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, I have also read it. The material should be suitable, for example, to make cables or conductors for PCBs out of it. I don't see that at the moment.

I still find the subject quite exciting, because over thirty years ago I once helped to set up a measurement laboratory for high-temperature superconductors in the corporate research department of an electrical corporation of international renown, but I have forgotten at what temperatures our samples at that time became superconducting. It was still pretty cold.

I think the current (probably fake) paper is claiming they've beaten the record by something like 200K so there may not be enough grains of salt in the entire Morton plant for this one. Still, I don't know that anyone has ruled out the possibility of something coming to fruition... someday.

 

[kemmler3D]

People pay 5 figures for 2m cables made out of plain old copper, silver and gold. Can you IMAGINE what Jay of the eponymous audio lab would pay for superconductive cables?

 

[pablolie]

There is nothing like a technological breakthrough to justify a price increase

Even if you're just making obscure claims about if/how you really use it, and what the ultimate benefits are. Power? Probably a big aspect in superconductivity, but then again audiophiles don't seem to rank power cost among their top priorities.

Our human hearing will not get better just because we use revolutionary electronics and magnets, and we are already beyond the threshold of hear-ability with many things. We may pay less for energy cost? My current system doesn't really dent my financials due to $/Watt, so I am not sure that is a big selling point.

I remember hearing the big fission claims a few years ago, and that stuff has gone very quiet.

 

[Punter]

Ahem.... this technology or one similar is already in use with the

NanoFlo Superconductor Holographic 3D6 AC Cord​

link to comprehensive review and evaluation

While you're at it, you should visit the manufacturers website. If you don't feel like buying a $3999 power cord you could always book your semi tractor in to get a diamond nano coating job done.

Manufacturer

Sadly the actual product page is offline but I'm sure you could get one on special order!

 

[Hayabusa]

You might have seen the recent claim that room temperature superconductivity has been achieved. It's probably bogus this time, but it's not out of the question that it would happen someday, so - what if?

https://www.iflscience.com/first-ro...uperconductor-achieved-claim-scientists-70001

I'm not personally savvy enough about the intersection of physics, speaker driver design, and electronics to day what might use these materials might have in audio, but presumably there's something there.

What if you used superconducting wire for the voice coil, for example?

Could we build more powerful amps in smaller boxes?

Would the final veil be lifted if you used superconducting speaker cables?

Does anyone with a more suitable background care to speculate more concretely how sound reproduction might benefit if you could have superconducting parts in whatever part of the system you wanted?

You could make a very good electromagnet

 

[Galliardist]

Ahem.... this technology or one similar is already in use with the

NanoFlo Superconductor Holographic 3D6 AC Cord​

link to comprehensive review and evaluation

While you're at it, you should visit the manufacturers website. If you don't feel like buying a $3999 power cord you could always book your semi tractor in to get a diamond nano coating job done.

Manufacturer

Sadly the actual product page is offline but I'm sure you could get one on special order!

Actual scientists will be really upset when they find out that some audio guy with a gel beat them to it and has almost got round to measuring the cable to prove the claim!
Hey, someone even worked out that by using the word nano, they can still claim superconductivity if the test for it fails, because it's novel!

Anyway, I guess only claiming superconductivity in an audio cable is quite enough to generate sales at high prices, rather than actually achieving it. No need to actually bother?

 

[DonH56]

Yes, I have also read it. The material should be suitable, for example, to make cables or conductors for PCBs out of it. I don't see that at the moment.

I still find the subject quite exciting, because over thirty years ago I once helped to set up a measurement laboratory for high-temperature superconductors in the corporate research department of an electrical corporation of international renown, but I have forgotten at what temperatures our samples at that time became superconducting. It was still pretty cold.

When I was working with them, high-temperature superconductors transitioned around 90K and you could cool them with liquid nitrogen, about 77 K (-196 degC, -321 degF). Low-temperature superconductors required liquid helium at 4K (-269 degC, -452 degF). The filters I piddled with operated with liquid nitrogen. (I got to play with some low-temp stuff, but superconducting materials in general were nothing I spent any significant time with.) The biggest problem was connecting to them, as heat from the cables and connectors would raise the temperature above critical if not adequately buffered and insulated.

Here is an article about superconducting microwave filters. I was not involved with this but it walks through the filters and such. Hypres was a competitor at the time I was piddling. https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/10012/5800/Setoodeh_Sormeh.pdf?sequence=1

For audio, and electrical transmission in general, the problem of making a robust conductor in the form of a (long) wire is a significant challenge.

 

[LTig]

For audio, and electrical transmission in general, the problem of making a robust conductor in the form of a (long) wire is a significant challenge.

This. AFAIK most materials which are superconductive at temperatures above liquid helium are kind of a powder, and it's quite a challenge to make a wire from powder ...

 

[computer-audiophile]

This. AFAIK most materials which are superconductive at temperatures above liquid helium are kind of a powder, and it's quite a challenge to make a wire from powder ...

The samples I can remember were matchstick-sized brittle rods of some sort of ceramic material. I was making 4-wire resistance measurements at the time with the feedthrough at the cold head of a helium cryostat. The contacting was I think via some kind of silver conductive varnish. But as I said, I forgot the details, sorry.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

Put the high end cable manufacturers out of business. Well, more likely claims that boil down to "Our superconductivity is better than anything else on the market."

 

[phoenixdogfan]

It probably has greatest applications in things like electric power transmission over the grid, and Maglev light rail. If it's workable in audio, it probably would just make things smaller and more efficient, but we already have Class D for that.

Also, as a society, would have to worry that the Pierson's Puppeteers would send a virus to eat all the room temperature superconductors to bring about the collapse of our civilization so humans won't threaten their interstellar trading empire.

 

[Keith_W]

Also, as a society, would have to worry that the Pierson's Puppeteers would send a virus to eat all the room temperature superconductors to bring about the collapse of our civilization so humans won't threaten their interstellar trading empire.

Another Ringworld fan checking in

 

[IAtaman]

Sabine was talking about them as well, she reckons, like others stated here, it is likely to be bogus.

On the topic of using superconductors in audio, I guess they might help a bit with cables but would they really be helpful with transducers? Most amps struggle with 2ohm loads, what good a fully inductive or capacitive load would do?

 

[antcollinet]

I guess they might help a bit with cables

And then, at most, only speaker cables.

 

[IAtaman]

And then, at most, only speaker cables.

And crossover inductors maybe?

Just did quick reading of the master thesis DonH56 shared, looks like you can indeed make filters out of them, not clear though any advantages in audio frequencies. And, it turns out, you can make transistor like devices using semiconductors too so maybe super fast and lower power DACs and ADCs might be possible. Next thing you know we are discussing whether GHz samplng rate vinyls sound better than CD.

 

[kemmler3D]

would they really be helpful with transducers?

I think the idea of replacing today's permanent magnets with superconducting electromagnets might go somewhere. It would reduce size / weight constraints at the least, so we might be able to have very high sensitivity / excursion drivers on portable bluetooth speakers. Just imagine - every kid walking down the street can have a 120dB boombox... ah...

Joking aside, would that actually go anywhere? I'm assuming a superconducting magnet in a speaker would take the field strength to a new level. That's got to be worth something in terms of output and/or distortion, no?

And all seriousness, looks like this LK-99 discovery has not been debunked yet, and is even considered ... promising? Possibly already replicated? Exciting times, ladies and gentlemen. We may only need full spoons of salt at this point, the number of grains we need to take with this seems to be declining.

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/room-temperature-superconductor-new-developments

 

[Cbdb2]

Sabine was talking about them as well, she reckons, like others stated here, it is likely to be bogus.

On the topic of using superconductors in audio, I guess they might help a bit with cables but would they really be helpful with transducers? Most amps struggle with 2ohm loads, what good a fully inductive or capacitive load would do?

The amp/speaker system would have to be current drive. The load would not be fully inductive, any sound power the driver delivers would be seen as a resistive load. They could be light and efficient.

 

[IAtaman]

I think the idea of replacing today's permanent magnets with superconducting electromagnets might go somewhere. It would reduce size / weight constraints at the least, so we might be able to have very high sensitivity / excursion drivers on portable bluetooth speakers. Just imagine - every kid walking down the street can have a 120dB boombox... ah...

Joking aside, would that actually go anywhere? I'm assuming a superconducting magnet in a speaker would take the field strength to a new level. That's got to be worth something in terms of output and/or distortion, no?

And all seriousness, looks like this LK-99 discovery has not been debunked yet, and is even considered ... promising? Possibly already replicated? Exciting times, ladies and gentlemen. We may only need full spoons of salt at this point, the number of grains we need to take with this seems to be declining.

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/room-temperature-superconductor-new-developments

Oh interesting. Does that mean the field strength of the magnets is a limiting factor in drivers?