What is your favorite house curve

[Andysu]

that is so true mic and stand its on those narrow areas of tripod will reflect sound , really only need is mic capsule on a thin firm stiff wire and hold it place the stiff wire can bent to angle mic , yes that may make pink noise better on RTA

 

[Sal1950]

saying a perfect speaker in a room makes the perfect playback makes no sense at all

Who said that ???

 

[dasdoing]

Who said that ???

I see it a lot

 

[goat76]

saying a perfect speaker in a room makes the perfect playback makes no sense at all, since the response is all over the place depending on where we are in the room.
This is a rather purist approach and saying people are wrong in searching for the best room EQ is a little arrogant.

I think it should go without saying that an optimal speaker placement and, hopefully, a balanced-sounding listening position with as few compromises are found, and that at least the most problematic room acoustic is dealt with before anyone reaches for the EQ tool, which should be the last step for the final optimization when you don't feel you can get further with the before mentioned steps.


I don't think anyone here is against equalization, it's just about what type of measurements you base your adjustments on.

• If adjustments are needed to fix the direct response of the speaker, you should, according to the research made by Toole and his team, base these adjustments on gated or anechoic measurements as the direct response of the speaker is the dominant thing you hear at the listening position.
• If adjustments are needed to fix the in-room response, you should keep these under the transition frequency according to the research, as the in-room measurements are representative of what we hear sitting at the listening position for the bass region.
• If you prefer more or less bass or more or less energy in the high-frequency area, you can use a low- or high-shelf filter to make broadband adjustments to the curve.

I think Toole just wants to tell you that equalization based on a full in-room measurement runs the risk of being a hit or a miss, you may be lucky and hit the right spots, or maybe get tricked by the nice and even-looking adjusted response curve. Confirmation bias is a strong thing.
(But in the end, the only thing that matters is if we like the sound or not.)

 

[Andysu]

Who said that ???

no more drugs for ever said that

 

[Sal1950]

I see it a lot

Humm OK but your right, it doesn't make sense, in the same way of
"all amplifiers sound alike".
I don't think anyone's ever said that without some caveats, but we get accused of it all the time.

 

[Andysu]

Humm OK but your right, it doesn't make sense, in the same way of
"all amplifiers sound alike".
I don't think anyone's ever said that without some caveats, but we get accused of it all the time.

sound alike amps , guess depends on REW sine wave tests connected to oscilloscope does it produce harmonic frequencies ? or does the denon 8500h pure on rca outputs , not tested stomaudio thou i expect it to be flawed

 

[Sal1950]

sound alike amps , guess depends on REW sine wave tests connected to oscilloscope does it produce harmonic frequencies ? or does the denon 8500h pure on rca outputs , not tested stomaudio thou i expect it to be flawed

You lost me, what's your point?
Who ever said a SET 300B tube amp sounds exactly like a modern low SINAD SS amp?

 

[Oddball]

I think that the favorite house curve is a mater of taste. Like having coffee black or with stuff, spiced up meals or not, wine vs. beer or water, truck vs. corvette, etc...

I don't see a reason why one would not want to spice it up according to their taste if that ultimately enhances their enjoyment. The fact that the original intent of the creator was different is relevant to some, and I can see the point, but at the end of the day if I get a dish that needs salt & pepper, I will make sure to add some, and then more if needed.

 

[sigbergaudio]

saying a perfect speaker in a room makes the perfect playback makes no sense at all, since the response is all over the place depending on where we are in the room.
This is a rather purist approach and saying people are wrong in searching for the best room EQ is a little arrogant.

Sounds like a strawman.

 

[Andysu]

saying a perfect speaker in a room makes the perfect playback makes no sense at all, since the response is all over the place depending on where we are in the room.
This is a rather purist approach and saying people are wrong in searching for the best room EQ is a little arrogant.

i been on heart medication , yes , yes it makes sense it does of course we think we have perfect speaker , so those manufactures keep telling us , mortal sheep
yes it makes sense , what most don't do is test the so called audiophile speaker outdoors , less room interference
well make a video show how you tackle it in your room , i was going to do , one lengthy single black speaker and place mic anywhere in the room , but i'm relaxing to day , best you do the video , otherwise i keep reading text , text , its 21st century use that smart phone make a video

 

[Sal1950]

best you do the video , otherwise i keep reading text , text , its 21st century use that smart phone make a video

My little flip phone doesn't do good video, I'll leave that to you.

 

[AdamG]

OK, correct me if I get this wrong (as I’m sure will happen) Target Curve is just another name for Preference Curve. Meaning during the scientific study conducted, a majority of participants “Prefered” a particular curve for (fill in the blank for Movie theater, Concert hall, House, Headphones, IEM’s and maybe even a Car.

In the end this is about Personal Preference Curve. We don’t all agree and that’s just fine. You want more bass go for it. You want more treble fine. These is no absolute right answer. The best we have is under study conditions a test group of people preferred this cure or that curve. That also mans that a minority of the group did not prefer that curve. It’s your sound and your pleasure. There is no concrete right or wrong. Flavor to taste and enjoy the music/movie…

 

[Sal1950]

OK, correct me if I get this wrong (as I’m sure will happen) Target Curve is just another name for Preference Curve. Meaning during the scientific study conducted, a majority of participants “Prefered” a particular curve for (fill in the blank for Movie theater, Concert hall, House, Headphones, IEM’s and maybe even a Car.

That hits the nail right on the head Adam!

 

[Sokel]

OK, correct me if I get this wrong (as I’m sure will happen) Target Curve is just another name for Preference Curve. Meaning during the scientific study conducted, a majority of participants “Prefered” a particular curve for (fill in the blank for Movie theater, Concert hall, House, Headphones, IEM’s and maybe even a Car.

In the end this is about Personal Preference Curve. We don’t all agree and that’s just fine. You want more bass go for it. You want more treble fine. These is no absolute right answer. The best we have is under study conditions a test group of people preferred this cure or that curve. That also mans that a minority of the group did not prefer that curve. It’s your sound and your pleasure. There is no concrete right or wrong. Flavor to taste and enjoy the music/movie…

It's more a result than a preference.
It's the result of a well made speaker in a room.When Amir measures speakers the estimated in room frequency response looks close to it when a speaker is decent.
Of course room will do it's thing down low and it will need correction up to the transition frequency.Higher than that one can not correct for room as the correction made only by in room measurements will include the reflections.

 

[AdamG]

It's more a result than a preference.
It's the result of a well made speaker in a room.When Amir measures speakers the estimated in room frequency response looks close to it when a speaker is decent.
Of course room will do it's thing down low and it will need correction up to the transition frequency.Higher than that one can not correct for room as the correction made only by in room measurements will include the reflections.

Here is a good read on the origins of the Target (Preference) Curve.

Some comments from Floyd Toole about room curve targets, room EQ and more

Room curve targets Every so often it is good to review what we know about room curves, targets, etc. Almost 50 years of double-blind listening tests have shown persuasively that listeners like loudspeakers with flat, smooth, anechoic on-axis and listening-window frequency responses. Those with...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Balle Clorin]

This is my favoritt curves

 

[Floyd Toole]

It's more a result than a preference.
It's the result of a well made speaker in a room.When Amir measures speakers the estimated in room frequency response looks close to it when a speaker is decent.
Of course room will do it's thing down low and it will need correction up to the transition frequency.Higher than that one can not correct for room as the correction made only by in room measurements will include the reflections.

Agreed. A microphone is not a substitute for two ears and a brain - they "hear" things very differently!

 

[Basic Channel]

All in-room measurements are affected by reflections, but there is a difference between short and long wavelengths.

For short wavelengths, e.g. a 20kHz sound has a 17.15mm wavelength (about 2/3"), several full cycles will be produced by the speaker before it reflects and arrives at the measurement mic. Thus it can be easily windowed out.

As wavelengths get longer, we reach a point where a single wavelength reflects before it reaches the mic. Measurement of any frequencies below this do not give the speaker response, but the room + speaker response. We can calculate this lower frequency limit with this equation:

F = c / (2* (x^2 + d^2)^0.5)

Where c = speed of sound (343m/s or 1125ft/s), x = 1/2 the distance between microphone and speaker, and d = distance to the nearest reflecting surface, usually the floor. Source.

Thus for a mic placed 1m from the speaker and 1m from the floor, we have 343 / (2*0.5^2 + 1^2)^0.5) = 153Hz. If you have a sofa which is 30cm from the microphone, it is 294Hz, meaning any frequency measured <294Hz is nonsense.

Bear in mind that microphone stands can be reflecting surfaces and contribute to little wiggles in the FR. Read more about it here.

Note this is not the Schroder frequency, that is something else entirely. Of course, the measurement is valid if our intention is room correction. But it is not a valid measurement of loudspeaker performance below a certain frequency.

Thanks for this. With the exception of Schroeder I’ve known this stuff to some extent for years but never fully put it all together. I’ve only recently just understood (I think) how we hear wavelengths in a room. Because of rew.

I am very limited in space, I.e perhaps not the floor Can I ask a potentially silly question, but I presume I am measuring the speaker distance to surface from closest edge as opposed to woofer/tweeter?

I’m intrigued that I could probably just about measure my speakers quasi anechoic with small timing window above about 500 maybe. I’m probably weird/old/going deaf, but I care about the peak at 1.1k more than stuff lower down.

REW is amazing really. I used to think Ableton is amazing (and it is) but REW makes me realise that stuff I read about FFT that I can’t comprehend is true.

 

[levimax]

OK, correct me if I get this wrong (as I’m sure will happen) Target Curve is just another name for Preference Curve. Meaning during the scientific study conducted, a majority of participants “Prefered” a particular curve for (fill in the blank for Movie theater, Concert hall, House, Headphones, IEM’s and maybe even a Car.

In the end this is about Personal Preference Curve. We don’t all agree and that’s just fine. You want more bass go for it. You want more treble fine. These is no absolute right answer. The best we have is under study conditions a test group of people preferred this cure or that curve. That also mans that a minority of the group did not prefer that curve. It’s your sound and your pleasure. There is no concrete right or wrong. Flavor to taste and enjoy the music/movie…

I don't think that is quite all of it. If you have a "good speaker" (Flat on axis response , with smooth off axis response curve/ smooth directivity in an anechoic space) at the listening position in a room it will measure with a downward sloping FR i.e. like the Harman curve. The "curve" is not the preference, the "good speaker" is the preference and the curve is how a good speaker measures at the LP without any EQ. If you try to force a "bad speaker" to measure like a "good speaker" at the LP it may make things worse not better. The exception to this is below Schroeder frequency where room modes dominate and making EQ compensations (reducing room mode peaks, trying to fill dips is usually counter productive) is usually helpful.