What is the deal with expensive HiFi racks?

[CapMan]

I've experienced very noticeable sound quality improvements by reducing vibration in solid state components.

How did you do the comparison?

 

[Sal1950]

Do glass shelves make things sound glassy; is wood more mellow; does steel make the music sound hard.

Yes, yes, and yes.
Did I really have to say it.

 

[Sal1950]

I've experienced very noticeable sound quality improvements by reducing vibration in solid state components.

Un hun

 

[Prana Ferox]

I built a Flexi Rack some time back. Even skipping the audiophoolery, the material costs and my own labor time added up.

We all have our own idea of 'expensive' but good furniture is expensive these days, real wood is expensive, precision work and hand touches are expensive, shipping if applicable is expensive.

 

[CapMan]

I built a Flexi Rack some time back. Even skipping the audiophoolery, the material costs and my own labor time added up.

We all have our own idea of 'expensive' but good furniture is expensive these days, real wood is expensive, precision work and hand touches are expensive, shipping if applicable is expensive.

I can go online and buy a 4 tier modular rack for a couple of hundred pounds or for many thousands of pounds.

Both will do the job of resisting gravity equally well , which is the main aim I guess

 

[Mart68]

Yes. it's a thing.

Microphonics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've experienced very noticeable sound quality improvements by reducing vibration in solid state components.

You should probably read that Wikipedia entry.

There is one mention of micro phonics in one type of capacitors, with one reference, and the link to the reference is dead.

This has been tested and even earthquake levels of vibration have no effect whatsoever on the output from solid state devices. A good thing too since in critical applications where vibration levels are high (aircraft, for example) if it were a real problem there would be serious issues.

You did some mods that changed nothing, but as a result you experienced some cognitive bias that changed your perception of the sound. Happens to us all. Try it again with some controls, you won't tell a difference.

 

[motorstereo]

I built a Flexi Rack some time back. Even skipping the audiophoolery, the material costs and my own labor time added up.

We all have our own idea of 'expensive' but good furniture is expensive these days, real wood is expensive, precision work and hand touches are expensive, shipping if applicable is expensive.

I did the same thing over the winter using 1 1/2" butcher block and I was amazed at how quickly the costs added up. Just the wood alone was over $800. Thankfully the satisfaction of diy to your own specs eased the sticker shock of the costly materials.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

You should probably read that Wikipedia entry.

There is one mention of micro phonics in one type of capacitors, with one reference, and the link to the reference is dead.

This has been tested and even earthquake levels of vibration have no effect whatsoever on the output from solid state devices. A good thing too since in critical applications where vibration levels are high (aircraft, for example) if it were a real problem there would be serious issues.

You did some mods that changed nothing, but as a result you experienced some cognitive bias that changed your perception of the sound. Happens to us all. Try it again with some controls, you won't tell a difference.

For domestic audio gear, this is true. But as a University project I built a very high-gain instrumentation amplifier which was completely solid state but which was sensitive to sound in the lab and so required isolation.

 

[StigErik]

I’m perfectly happy with this one…..

 

[Mart68]

For domestic audio gear, this is true. But as a University project I built a very high-gain instrumentation amplifier which was completely solid state but which was sensitive to sound in the lab and so required isolation.

Okay but the trouble with quoting extreme exceptions is that people will latch onto them as reasons to spend ten grand isolating their DACs.

Not only does the vibration have to be sufficient to change the output, it also has to be sufficient to make a large enough change to the output that it audibly degrades the signal.

And in any case, the isolation is only reducing structure-borne vibration, not airborne vibration, which remains totally unchecked. In the relevant context - domestic replay - it's all complete nonsense.

 

[Sal1950]

I did the same thing over the winter using 1 1/2" butcher block and I was amazed at how quickly the costs added up. Just the wood alone was over $800. Thankfully the satisfaction of diy to your own specs eased the sticker shock of the costly materials.

It would be awesome to have the machines and skill too produce your own like that but as you reveal
the DIY path can also get expensive.
For myself I had to choose from the Audio Advisor's line of import audio furniture.
A pretty decent alternative for us on a budget.

A/V Racks and Cabinets - Page 2

www.audioadvisor.com

 

[motorstereo]

It would be awesome to have the machines and skill too produce your own like that but as you reveal
the DIY path can also get expensive.
For myself I had to choose from the Audio Advisor's line of import audio furniture.
A pretty decent alternative for us on a budget.

A/V Racks and Cabinets - Page 2

www.audioadvisor.com

That's a very nice looking rack. Here's what I built including the base for my tt dustcover.

 

[Verig]

Why low-mass and rigid? I'm not a mechanical engineer, so I don't know for sure. The arguments mostly centred around energy storage and rapidly moving away excess energy mechanically generated by the stylus. Heavy mass storage was considered to "play along" with the music but slightly delayed, thereby impacting "speed" and affecting tunefulness, especially in the bass. See also "why do spikes work" etc.

I have a carbon fibre camera tripod. Light and very rigid. With modern camera resolution you really can, well, see the effect of a bad tripod. Same principle. However, it's very easy to understand why you don't want to shake a camera or a turntable. Or why Rega high-end model looks like a skeleton. These things actually work with movement.

With modern amps and electronics it's voodoo and sales.

 

[Sal1950]

That's a very nice looking rack. Here's what I built including the base for my tt dustcover.

Oh my yes, that's a beautiful design and build. Far beyond my cheapo stuff.
If only I had ---------------------------------------

 

[Mean & Green]

I bought this rack from Richer Sounds 24 years ago for £100. It’s very rigid and the shelves are adjustable.

Still using it to this day in my living room. I’ve wired in some blue and white separately dimmable LED lighting for both ambiance and backlight for operating the turntable.

 

[Ghostofmerlin]

Yes. it's a thing.

Microphonics - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've experienced very noticeable sound quality improvements by reducing vibration in solid state components.

I feel like my music is vibrating as we speak. Maybe the plate tectonics? Whatever it is, it's creepy

 

[akamatsu]

Sometime during the 1980s, someone discovered that their Linn Sondek LP12 sounded better when placed on a light coffee table than when placed on a heavy sideboard full of stuff. This kicked off the low-mass+rigid approach to HiFi stands.

Why low-mass and rigid? I'm not a mechanical engineer, so I don't know for sure. The arguments mostly centred around energy storage and rapidly moving away excess energy mechanically generated by the stylus. Heavy mass storage was considered to "play along" with the music but slightly delayed, thereby impacting "speed" and affecting tunefulness, especially in the bass. See also "why do spikes work" etc.

The conventional wisdom is lightweight, rigid, and stable. Why? I am a mechanical engineer, but I don't know for sure.

Stable: That's easy to understand. Wobbly would move more. Vibration is movement.

Rigid: This too is easy to understand. Hold the component steady and fixed in space as well as can be done. Again, this will reduce movement. The component is being bombarded by sound waves (music). This will cause movement of the circuits. Hold everything steady in space.

Lightweight: Not as easy to understand. The source of vibration in the stand are the sound waves in the air (music). When hit by these sound waves, a lightweight stand will resonate at a higher frequency than a heavier one. The higher frequency has less energy, and amplitude of movement. This vibrational energy is more easily damped by the mass of the component setting on the shelf. By the way, the shelf seems to have good potential for sound quality improvement by going lighter and more rigid.

I have tested all this. I progressed to lighter and more rigid incrementally. I ended up with three components (turntable, tt power supply, streamer/preamp) each on their own stands. Separate stands would address "lighter." I have a NOKTable under the turntable, and AudioTech stands under the other two component. I replaced the supplied platforms (1500g) with 16 ply Baltic Birch plywood platforms (950g).

As for stands offered today, nothing that I've seen betters the old AudioTech and Sound Organisation stands of the 1980s, and the current NOKTable for LRS. I bought my AudioTech in 1989 for $195. It is a welded cube and can't be flat packed for cheaper shipping. There's simply no money to be made. The NOKTable is $995 today. It seems like a lot of money for a frame, spikes and a shelf. But the sound quality provided by a lightweight, rigid and stable stand was worth it in my case.

 

[dwcda]

I like the look of the butcher block racks. The fact that they can carry lots of weight & don't transfer vibrations is a plus. Mine is solid Walnut, matches the turntable pretty closely.

 

[egellings]

I like the look of the butcher block racks. The fact that they can carry lots of weight & don't transfer vibrations is a plus. Mine is solid Walnut, matches the turntable pretty closely.

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I'd want those big Macs on the bottom of the rack to have a bit more ventilation space above them. They could overheat in that position if driven hard.

 

[sq225917]

I used a flexi table years ago, made a nice job of it, stainless thread and veneered shelves. My daughter uses the four shelves for tap dancing practice, saves the expensive Karndean tiles on the kitchen floor..

I made it fold up with piano hinges, quite a funky thing, not many kids have a fold up walnut veneered dace floor.

My hifi sits on a sideways IKEA bookshelf, still sounds the same...