Zensō
Major Contributor
And there are people who don’t understand a simple answer. You’re now ignored, by the way.There are people that either don't want to understand the question or are not able to do so.
And there are people who don’t understand a simple answer. You’re now ignored, by the way.There are people that either don't want to understand the question or are not able to do so.
Which question I did not understand? I posted one for the thread that got not very satisfactory answers yet (but maybe there currently don't exist any). Ignored by whom, by you? That would be very harsh on meAnd there are people who don’t understand a simple answer. You’re now ignored, by the way.
The headphones' capacity to deliver the target it aimed at (or rather the spirit of it, which in Harman's case would be "decent loudspeakers in a decent listening room") on as many real humans as possible.
The issue of leakage and how it can for some headphones introduce significant variation across people is already fairly well established thanks to Rtings' database and Harman's own article on leakage : https://www.grasacoustics.com/files...mprovedMeasurementofLeakageEffects_Harman.pdf
Sample variation also is an issue that's occasionally been well demonstrated.
Also, FR variation with placement on the same person as well.
It's a near miracle headphones work as well as they do, testament to the ability of the human ear-brain system to adapt and compensate, when we consider the amount of variation.
Indeed !
For some headphones / individuals combinations, it might not have as much work to do in real-life positioning scenarios as one might expect from the sort of spatial averaging traces you may see on an ear simulator (which in my view serves a different purpose than to appraise positional variation in real-life scenarios) : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...view-closed-back-headphone.19657/post-1068170
It's been a very long while since I owned them, but I distinctly remember my pair of HD800 sliding around my head quite easily. In contrast my pair of HD650 + Dekoni Elite Velour pads is glued to my head and shows very little seatings to seatings variation and variation when moving around.
It's possibly both an underestimated phenomenon for some headphones / individuals combinations, and not much of a problem for others.
Incredible design, the HD650.
Had hoped the Austrian X65 would be able to do the same thing with more extension but the variation measurements I'm seeing (e.g. from Hi-Fi News) aren't promising.
Please make a separate thread about headphone fitting. I am not interested in this here.Indeed !
For some headphones / individuals combinations, it might not have as much work to do in real-life positioning scenarios as one might expect from the sort of spatial averaging traces you may see on an ear simulator (which in my view serves a different purpose than to appraise positional variation in real-life scenarios) : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...view-closed-back-headphone.19657/post-1068170
It's been a very long while since I owned them, but I distinctly remember my pair of HD800 sliding around my head quite easily. In contrast my pair of HD650 + Dekoni Elite Velour pads is glued to my head and shows very little seatings to seatings variation and variation when moving around.
It's possibly both an underestimated phenomenon for some headphones / individuals combinations, and not much of a problem for others.
Please make a separate thread about headphone fitting. I am not interested in this here.
Please make a separate thread about headphone fitting. I am not interested in this here.Incredible design, the HD650. Had hoped the Austrian X65 would be able to do the same thing with more extension but the variation measurements I'm seeing (e.g. from Hi-Fi News) aren't promising.
Ok, if you live on a noisy road and don't use closed or noise cancelling headphones, it may affect the sound as well. But I want to know which (potentially) measurable feature in the design and construction of a headphone and driver has which influence on the sound.The headphone fitting affects compliance to Harman between listeners and across different listening sessions for the same listener. So it matters.
Ok, if you live on a noisy road and don't use noise cancelling headphones, it may affect the sound as well. But I want to know which (potentially) measurable feature in the design and construction of a headphone and driver has which influence on the sound.
What is measureable? If you set up loudspeakers and arrange and optimise the sound for the sweat spot and then go in another room for listening, the sound will deteriorate. So what?IT IS MEASURABLE AND A COMMON FEATURE IN MEASUREMENT SETS THAT ARE PUBLISHED. Keith Howard's Headphone Test Lab/Hi-Fi News, Innerfidelity, Oratory to begin with.
Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers sennheiser hd 800 s full test
Headphone Test Lab test results manufacturers sennheiser hd 800 s full testheadphonetestlab.co.uk
Your condescension and dunning kruger isn't appreciated here.
Trolling is also not appreciated. Look, it is very simple. This is a thread I started for the question to discuss I am interested in. It is about the measurable characteristics which have an influence on the sound besides FR (Harman curve) and distortion, that potentially separate cheap from expensive headphones, as there is a number of quite affordable headphones following rather closely the Harman curve and having quite low distortion. So in which way are these SOUNDWISE inferior, if at all ? That is what I would like to know. I am not interested in headphone fitting as I consider this a subordinate issue. If you want to discuss headphone fitting, please make an own separate thread and discuss it there as much as you like. What is the point?Your condescension and dunning kruger isn't appreciated here.
Well, what you list are things that can be measured, but, at least at first glance, they are not clearly related to sound quality or characteristics, there are excellent headphones with high and low impedance (Hifiman Susvara has 60 Ohm impedance and sensitivity of 83 dB, Audeze 14 Ohm and 90 dB, Focal Utopia 80 Ohm and 104dB, while the Sennheiser HD 800 S has and impedance of 300 Ohm and a sensitivity of 102 dB). So these values tell you nothing about sound quality. And several other items from your list, like group delay or driver angle, are, as far is I know, not very well unterstood in their relation to sound, but maybe you can enlighten me a bit more.Aside from THD+N, and raw frequency response (which I assume is what you mean when you refer to the Harman curve), there are a number of other characteristics that can influence a headphone's perceived sound quality and imaging that could be measured. Some of these have already been mentioned. But I'll add a few others of my own to the list that I think could also be important, like driver symmetry....
isolation
impedance
driver symmetry
differences in phase
group delay
driver angle
drive size
pad/cup depth, driver distance and amount of pinna interaction
sensitivity
sound leakage and crosstalk (unrelated to the seal)
impulse response & cumulative spectral decay
other forms of nonlinear distortion than THD+N
Well, what you list are things that can be measured, but, at least at first glance, they are not clearly related to sound quality or characteristics, there are excellent headphones with high and low impedance (Hifiman Susvara has 60 Ohm impedance and sensitivity of 83 dB, Audeze 14 Ohm and 90 dB, Focal Utopia 80 Ohm and 104dB, while the Sennheiser HD 800 S has and impedance of 300 Ohm and a sensitivity of 102 dB). So these values tell you nothing about sound quality. And several other items from your list, like group delay or driver angle, are, as far is I know, not very well unterstood in their relation to sound, but maybe you can enlighten me a bit more.