• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Watermarking: what do we know?

systemshock

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
19
Likes
26
About the business case:

Amazon calls this "Record Company Required Metadata". Here is a thumbnail from the description they provide for U2's Songs of Innocence album (the mp3 version):
1558897423762.png

You can see the full information on that topic here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=dm_adp_uits?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201438510

I remember reading about it some years ago. The companies require the streaming service/seller to put information, which uniquely identifies your account, into the audio stream, as a watermark. The idea is that if music obtained from your account, leaks on a file sharing service, they can track you down. I am not sure what happens after the fact, as there is always the possibility that your account was hacked, your laptop or external hard drive was stolen, etc. However, I guess that matching an account with its corresponding name, address, credit card number, etc. is not out of their reach. Probably, if they find a specific person to regularly leak music files, even if those were obtained from different accounts, they can push charges.

Back then, the article I read, stated that failing to provide this functionality, will result in the record companies withdrawing the titles from the catalog of the respective service (or to not provide it in the first place). As you can see, Amazon is still watermarking music and describes it as an activity required by another party.

What really troubles me about this practice is that it goes way beyond protecting intellectual rights and breaks your own privacy. Audio fingerprinting is already advanced enough and you can find plenty of proof-of-concept, or even real life examples, where one device listens for others and when it detects them, concludes that they are located in near proximity. Something like this:

"Your TV can tell when it is in the same room with your phone, so, hey, it may not have a GPS and you may not have logged in, with your Google account on it, but you have done so on your phone. Isn't it nice that they can now talk to each other, even without your consent? Hey, there is your laptop there too! Good to know!"

With such a watermark it becomes really easy to tell when a given person is nearby, just by listening to the music they are playing. You don't even have to gain access on both ends. Then again, in the current state of development of Surveillance Capitalism, this seems like just a drop in the ocean.

As for HDTracks and the other companies, I understand that they are required to put the watermark in there, but to me it seems that it breaks the promise they give in the first place. At the prices they keep for albums, I find it wrong to alter the sound quality in such ways. After all, people are paying for a pristine, untouched, high-quality copy of the music.
 
Last edited:

systemshock

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
19
Likes
26
I looked up some of those articles. They are still online and contain some good info, if you are interested.

(Offtopic: Turns out the "some years ago" in the post above is no less than 10 years. One of the articles is from 2008. Time really flies :) )

Universal's Audible Watermark.
This article includes a test of whether you can hear it, or not. Also has a good list of references.
https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark

DRM Is Dead, But Watermarks Rise From Its Ashes
EFF's take on the situation. In retrospect, we now know they were quite right.
https://www.eff.org/press/mentions/2008/1/11-0

DRM IS DEAD, BUT WATERMARKS RISE FROM ITS ASHES
Same title, but on Wired. They expanded on the previous one.
https://www.wired.com/2008/01/drm-is-dead-but-watermarks-rise-from-its-ashes/

Putting a notch into digital sound
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Putting+a+notch+into+digital+sound.-a06507687
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,511
Likes
5,439
Location
UK
Amazon calls this "Record Company Required Metadata". Here is a thumbnail from the description they provide for U2's Songs of Innocence album (the mp3 version):


You can see the full information on that topic here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=dm_adp_uits?ie=UTF8&nodeId=201438510

I remember reading about it some years ago. The companies require the streaming service/seller to put information, which uniquely identifies your account, into the audio stream, as a watermark.
Metadata is not audio watermarking, the Amazon link you provided backs that up. That's not to say that Amazon files don't have an audio watermark, but they are not adding it, so it won't be linked to your account.
 

systemshock

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
19
Likes
26
Metadata is not audio watermarking, the Amazon link you provided backs that up. That's not to say that Amazon files don't have an audio watermark, but they are not adding it, so it won't be linked to your account.
Yes, maybe you are right.

What troubles me is how they worded it. They are not saying "we do not watermark" or "we do not alter the original audio sources in any way". Instead they say "These identifiers do not affect the playback experience in any way". What "playback experience" means in this context is quite unclear. A well-executed watermark can be inaudible and thus not experience-altering, while perfectly recognizable and recoverable by a machine.

I know that this sounds paranoid, but they can add a watermark and the disclaimer, will still not be incorrect. It is probably easy to check this, though. If two different accounts purchase the same song and then a comparison is performed only on the audio stream, they should be identical, if (a) no watermark was added, or (b) the watermark is the same for all users.
 

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,511
Likes
5,439
Location
UK
I know that this sounds paranoid, but they can add a watermark and the disclaimer, will still not be incorrect. It is probably easy to check this, though. If two different accounts purchase the same song and then a comparison is performed only on the audio stream, they should be identical, if (a) no watermark was added, or (b) the watermark is the same for all users.
Yes, your check will test if they are doing per user audio watermarking. If you can find someone else who had the same track you do.
 

RussellH

Member
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
5
Likes
5

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,511
Likes
5,439
Location
UK

ERIC ALEXANDRAKIS

New Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
1
Likes
1
I'm no expert on this topic, which is why the title of this thread is a question, but it seems clear to me that a significant proportion of music distributed via streaming services is now watermarked by the major labels. Some examples of watermarked audio that have been posted in various places online seem to show that this practice does (or at least can) create quite audible distortion. The examples I've heard seemed to create more objectionable distortion than e.g. that caused by higher bitrate lossy compression, for example.

So I thought it might be worthwhile to try to develop a better understanding of what's going on here.

My questions are:
  1. Which labels are doing this and how much of their catalogues is subject to it?
  2. What different techniques are being used, and what are the technical and audible differences between these?
  3. Is watermarking also being employed in respect of non-streaming releases?
Any solid information would be greatly appreciated.

Ask the guy who invented the digital watermark. His name is Scott Moskowitz: Twitter.com/moskowitz of BlueSpike. Many have tried to steal credit for its invention. I was there when it all happened 25 years ago as I produced the first CD that contained the tech. He’s the best source. Enjoy.
 

Daverz

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
1,309
Likes
1,475
Qobuz is affected. It is apparent right away on the first track on this album. I have contacted qobuz directly and they replied that they add no watermarks of their own. It comes from the labels.

https://www.qobuz.com/us-en/album/c...lle-fantaisie-krystian-zimerman/0002894230902

Holy shit, just got around to sampling this. It's an obvious beating sound from the first few seconds. It's not there in my CD ripped copy. I'm just gobsmacked that they would shit on their own catalog this way.
 

GrimSurfer

Major Contributor
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
1,238
Likes
1,484
I'm sure this will technology will be incorporated into remasters of back catalogue material, if it hasn't already been.

Another case for used CDs and original era content.
 

RussellH

Member
Joined
May 25, 2019
Messages
5
Likes
5
It has to be audible in order to function. If it's not audible it risks being removed by a lossy codec, so it's no use as a watermark.
Okay, but probably it is a matter of degrees. Maybe the newer UMG files aren't watermarked at all. If UMG would do the whatever Warner Brothers, Sony, EMI, Naxos, and many others do, that would be fine. I can't hear any watermarks on them.
 

111MilesToGo

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
5
Likes
12
Location
Germany
I'd like to post on how the new DeltaWave software by @pkane (under beta testing right now, cf. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...test-deltawave-null-comparison-software.6633/) is really useful for investigating watermarking.

The concept is: I compared various audio files (albums) purchased from various music stores on the web. Subtracting a track purchased from one shop from the same track from another shop clearly exposes the watermarking and its characteristics. My purchases of UMG albums were done in the second half of 2018; shops were HD Tracks and HighResAudio as well as Presto Music. At that time UMG watermarking was in effect, cf. the mattmontag blogs https://www.mattmontag.com/music/universals-audible-watermark and https://www.mattmontag.com/music/an-update-on-umg-watermarks.

So here is an example, the HiRes release (24/192) of the ECM Records album "Changes" by the Keith Jarrett Standards Trio. ECM is an independent company, but relies on UMG for distribution. So UMG spoils (spoiled? Is it gone now???) the ECM downloads, where the actual recordings are famous for their high quality. Since the actual music is identical for the two tracks compared, DeltaWave is not required to attempt an alignment in volume and time.

It turns out that the UMG watermarking is present, and that it is different at least for the different shops; maybe it is also different on a per-user basis. which cannot be inferred from my DeltaWave analyses.

Waveforms, (1) originals "HD Tracks" and "HighResAudio" overlayed so that it looks like one, as well as (2) the difference "HD Tracks" compared to "HighResAudio", titled Delta:
2020-11-18_182508.png


2020-11-18_182549.png


Spectral analyses of the original tracks (overlayed, so it looks like one):
2020-11-18_182528.png


Spectral analysis of the difference - it turns out watermarking is different for the two shops resulting in a two-peaked structure right within the audible frequency range, and the otherwise deep null:
2020-11-18_182604.png


Spectrogram of the difference:
2020-11-18_182650.png


The spectrum and the spectrogram of the difference clearly shows the frequency bands where the watermarking is injected as well as an indicative level (-90dB, a ridiculous number as compared to the blackness of noise levels everybody is striving for).

Please keep in mind: The DeltaWave app is in beta testing (cf. source above). What I would like to point here out is a good use case, and to present a good view on what watermarking looks like.

Final remark: Personally, I have tried to prevent myself from focusing on the audibility of the watermarking, since this would be a bad case of brain education. On the other hand, my tests represented here involve purchasing the same album / track from several shops, which is wasting money on spoiled and insulting UMG releases. Hope this awful practice is going to be over soon (cf. the mattmontag update)! And even more: Let's hope that high-res download shops replace watermarked releases by clean ones now, and let's hope to be able to download the clean ones again based on our previous purchases. For streaming sites, let's hope they get clean releases to replace the watermarked ones, which would at least become a positive aspect for their concept of letting us rent the music.
 
Last edited:

Soniclife

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
Messages
4,511
Likes
5,439
Location
UK
The spectrum and the spectrogram of the difference clearly shows the frequency bands where the watermarking is injected as well as an indicative level (-90dB, a ridiculous number as compared to the blackness of noise levels everybody is striving for).
They seem to have really lowered the impact compared to what I found in post #21 in this thread, I was seeing -50db on Tidal vs CD. I'm not surprised they are different per service, I think that's the point. Like you I've also done my best to not tune into this.
 

JustAnandaDourEyedDude

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
518
Likes
820
Location
USA
So where some audiophiles fancy they hear "more air" in HiRes audio, they are actually hearing "water" waves.
 

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,776
Likes
1,562
Any idea if the labels are doing this more on HR material than the redbook FLAC stuff?
 

JustAnandaDourEyedDude

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
518
Likes
820
Location
USA
Any idea if the labels are doing this more on HR material than the redbook FLAC stuff?
No idea here. I have only cursorily looked through the watermarking-related threads here on ASR, because I have not yet bought any downloadable music. It is disturbing if the watermarks are audible, though. My silly little quasi-pun was only referring to likely greater expectations of fine details by many people buying or streaming HiRes.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom