Vintage Speakers Worth Owning Today?

[SIY]

Nice to see objective marketing blurb:

Rectilinear Mini III Compact Loudspeaker System Manual | HiFi Engine

www.hifiengine.com

Huh, I was unaware of this model. Mine were the original IIIs, four for quad of course.

 

[Snarfie]

I like your set up, you must have great imaging. Speakers, any speakers, classic or modern, need space to do their thing. (Almost) any decent speaker can sound great when given space in the room and any speaker will sound average to bad when not placed properly, and no dsp can prevent that, it is the room and placement that make it work.

You have to know my specific acoustic situation i can assure you that DSP did the for any speaker (i measurd) the job in my room. If you look to my frequency response

their is sometimes a more than 14db difference. Causing hiss between voices an instruments they are blocking most imaging/depth perspective (grey line). If i use the flat whiteline/target curve the hiss is gone low frequencies are suddenly there (not dominated by mid an high frequencies anymore) an the sound is balanced to intimate. The result you don't listen to the band you experience the band depended how it is recorded.

 

[Cote Dazur]

You have to know my specific acoustic situation

I agree with you, I do not know your specific room acoustic situation, also I agree that DSP can do a lot of good, my point was that optimum placement in a room comes first, which is what I thought you were trying placing your speakers the way you did, away from the boundaries, then improving with DSP, is always an option, if needed. As opposed to bad speaker placement, like a lot of the pictures in this thread and trying to correct mistakes mostly with DSP.

 

[Snarfie]

I agree with you, I do not know your specific room acoustic situation, also I agree that DSP can do a lot of good, my point was that optimum placement in a room comes first, which is what I thought you were trying placing your speakers the way you did, away from the boundaries, then improving with DSP, is always an option, if needed. As opposed to bad speaker placement, like a lot of the pictures in this thread and trying to correct mistakes mostly with DSP.

The Vandies are. a pain to place correctly. However DSP in my specific room made the sound atleast 70% better in any aspect. After 60 years the best investment i did in audio Gear was buying a measuring mic for Just 38,- euro's an using DSP more specific Mathaudio room EQ. It became different speakers.

 

[Pogre]

I've always wanted to check out these Kef 104/2s. They're not quite classic but I'd say vintage.

They're a different design with bass drivers connected to each other by a rod internally. I forget what the design is called tho...

 

[Cote Dazur]

The Vandies are. a pain to place correctly

Amen to that brother! , aren't they all?
I know from experience that it is worth all the efforts, but it took me years and numerous upgrade, side grade and downgrade, to realize how important finding the "spot" is to get spectacular results. Stereo is such a gift, when done right.

 

[Snarfie]

Amen to that brother! , aren't they all?.

IMO no the Vandies compared with other speakers were quite extreme regarding placement i almost ditch them.
But when they are in the correct spot an corrected with DSP they sound spectaculair esspesialy how they handl imaging i a ratio of 30% placement an 70% DSP.
What i find strange is that DSP should corrected the other speakers for phase coherent/time aligent behaviour. Compared with the Vandies that was cleary less the case. If i place the Vandies let say 10cm back the imaging magic is mostly gone that sensitive. But that is my subjective impression specific for my room (acoustics)

 

[Blumlein 88]

IMO no the Vandies compared with other speakers were quite extreme regarding placement i almost ditch them.
But when they are in the correct spot an corrected with DSP they sound spectaculair esspesialy how they handl imaging.
What i find strange is that DSP should corrected the other speakers for phase coherent/time aligent behaviour. Compared with the Vandies that was cleary less the case. If i place the Vandies let say 10cm back the imaging magic is mostly gone that sensetive. But that is my subjective impression specific for my room (acoustics)

The reason the Vandy's are so sensitive is with a 1st order crossover, they have considerable off-axis lobing. They can sound very good, but it takes some patience and some rooms just won't work with them. I always thought Vandersteen and Thiel were opposites of the same speakers. Time alignment, 1st order crossover only Thiels sounded on the bright side of neutral and Vandersteens on the dark side.

 

[Snarfie]

The reason the Vandy's are so sensitive is with a 1st order crossover, they have considerable off-axis lobing. They can sound very good, but it takes some patience and some rooms just won't work with them. I always thought Vandersteen and Thiel were opposites of the same speakers. Time alignment, 1st order crossover only Thiels sounded on the bright side of neutral and Vandersteens on the dark side.

Yes i think i'm lucky that i found the correct spot took me some days an that i eventualy did read the f..ng manual regarding the neccecary angel in my case 2 degrees an toe in or out. But when you get them right incombination with DSP (in my case) they could sound spectacular.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yes i think i'm lucky that i found the correct spot took me some days an that i eventualy did read the f..ng manual regarding the neccecary angel in my case 2 degrees an toe in or out. But when you get them right incombination with DSP (in my case) they could sound spectacular.

One of the few times a manual is useful and even illuminating, and you didn't read it???/

I'm laughing with you not at you.

 

[Loathecliff]

Yes i think i'm lucky that i found the correct spot took me some days an that i eventualy did read the f..ng manual regarding the neccecary angel in my case 2 degrees an toe in or out. But when you get them right incombination with DSP (in my case) they could sound spectacular.

My bold - So good to read that I'm not the only one who seeks divine intervention at times

 

[Mart68]

I've always wanted to check out these Kef 104/2s. They're not quite classic but I'd say vintage.

View attachment 200388

They're a different design with bass drivers connected to each other by a rod internally. I forget what the design is called tho...

Coupled cavity loading. They are very good speakers, well worth checking out.

 

[Julf]

Coupled cavity loading.

Is that the same as isobaric?

 

[Snarfie]

One of the few times a manual is useful and even illuminating, and you didn't read it???/

I'm laughing with you not at you.

Stereophile published some years ago a some interesting interviews named “Musicians as Audiophiles”.

Found the interviews with Paul Wells an Billy Drummond quite revealing an put my interest on the Vandersteen speakers. But if i see how Paul places his Vandies just behind the wall i'm a bit puzzeld how he get any imaging done. Clearly he is not using the manual. Says probaly something about the manual.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/musicians-audophiles-paul-wells
https://www.stereophile.com/content/musicians-audiophiles-billy-drummond
You tube interview with Paul wells regarding his audio setup.

 

[Mart68]

Is that the same as isobaric?

coupled cavity:




isobaric:

 

[sergeauckland]

Is that the same as isobaric?

No, isobaric has two drivers in two connected boxes such that the pressure between the driver cones stays constant as both cones move forward and back together, so the volume between them stays constant.
Coupled cavity has two sealed units where each driver cone works into a third cavity and this cavity is open to the room. It is a bandpass system with quite steep cutoffs each side.

S

 

[Julf]

Coupled cavity has two sealed units where each driver cone works into a third cavity and this cavity is open to the room. It is a bandpass system with quite steep cutoffs each side.

Ah, yes, thanks! Bandpass configurations like that seem very popular in car subwoofers.

 

[Cote Dazur]

But if i see how Paul places his Vandies just behind the wall i'm a bit puzzeld how he get any imaging done. Clearly he is not using the manual. Says probaly something about the manual

Thank you for sharing the video. Great comments about Keith Jarrett, I have to find the Sun Bear ECM recording.

To his defense most, if not all, manual get it wrong. Recreating a stereo image worth is salt, would scare away most buyers as so few people dedicated a space to listen to music, but yet they will spend a fortune on equipment, put it in a living room and place it wrong.

Also typical of Stereophile, but also "audiophile", to wax on forever on what the equipment and brands are, when most decent gear will do a great job in the right set up, but not a peep about placement.

From looking at so many set up doing it so wrong, so many people would do so much better, saving a lot of money and space, buying just one speaker. They would still get the details, listen to the music and bypass the whole imaging that they are not getting anyway.

 

[Snarfie]

Thank you for sharing the video. Great comments about Keith Jarrett, I have to find the Sun Bear ECM recording.

To his defense most, if not all, manual get it wrong.

I was kidding about the manual it definitly put me on the right track. DSP whas by far the biggist change. Second placing the speakers far from the back wall
The icing on the cake was the 2 degree angel en toe in.
I really like the choice of music in these kind of interviews with the priceless personal background information.

 

[Pogre]

Coupled cavity loading. They are very good speakers, well worth checking out.

That's what it is! Thanks. I wanted to say isobaric too, but I knew that wasn't quite right.

Anyhoo, yeah. I've read a few reviews and comments on those and they do have a great rep. I see them pop up for resale occasionally and they seem to hold their value pretty well on the vintage market.