Vintage receiver, keeping it as close to original as possible

[mhardy6647]

I have the Marantz 2020 and it still works great. The only problem I have with it is lifting the damn thing from my basement to the living room!

Heh. I actually had a 2020 (unsuffixed) for a while. Whoops, I guess it was a 2015, based on the one blurry photo I have handy . Quite a bit better built than the more common 2020B 2015B and, indeed, heavier, too.
It was a scrap pile find, and grungy enough looking that I never even had the nerve to try bringing it up. Hung on to it for a while, but finally gave it away.

Still have a 2020B, as it happens -- one which my son found on the sidewalk in Hanover, NH when he was at a tennis camp at Dartmouth in his high school days (the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree). That one works fine. I don't much care for the sound of that era of Marantz hardware, so it's basically a shelf queen. I think I did some basic rehab to that one, but I'd have to pop the top to be sure.



PS I did have a 2215B for a while, too -- like the 2220/2220B, the 2215B shows many signs of having been "value-engineered" compared to the unsuffixed version; the loss of weight being the most immediately salient.

(I managed to break the already compromised speaker selector switch shaft on this poor rascal )

 

[Deleted member 50971]

Heh. I actually had a 2020 (unsuffixed) for a while. Whoops, I guess it was a 2015, based on the one blurry photo I have handy . Quite a bit better built than the more common 2020B 2015B and, indeed, heavier, too.
It was a scrap pile find, and grungy enough looking that I never even had the nerve to try bringing it up. Hung on to it for a while, but finally gave it away. View attachment 228469

Still have a 2020B, as it happens -- one which my son found on the sidewalk in Hanover, NH when he was at a tennis camp at Dartmouth in his high school days (the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree). That one works fine. I don't much care for the sound of that era of Marantz hardware, so it's basically a shelf queen. I think I did some basic rehab to that one, but I'd have to pop the top to be sure.



PS I did have a 2215B for a while, too -- like the 2220/2220B, the 2215B shows many signs of having been "value-engineered" compared to the unsuffixed version; the loss of weight being the most immediately salient.


View attachment 228471
(I managed to break the already compromised speaker selector switch shaft on this poor rascal )

Beautiful looking Marantz pieces.

Looks like you are one of the Marantz guys I know are on ASR.

Looks like I will be pulling the trigger on a 2385 sooner than expected, I think I’ve found one that is to my liking. Some capacitors have been changed, but supposedly nothing drastic, of course everything cleaned and supposedly fully functional. That’s one reason why I was asking about the filter capacitors, because they were not changed on this unit. I got a little nervous about the other one when he told me they replace those two filter capacitors with four of them.

 

[mhardy6647]

I am not big on Superscope-era Marantz.
I do have a few pieces that I hang on to because they don't take up too much space and they do have some value to some folks. They could be converted to $$ if the need arose. I hang on to a couple of early ss McIntosh pieces for the same reason.

Now... Saul era Marantz... that's a different matter entirely.
Magnificent stuff.

 

[mhardy6647]

I am not big on Superscope-era Marantz.
I do have a few pieces that I hang on to because they don't take up too much space and they do have some value to some folks. They could be converted to $$ if the need arose. I hang on to a couple of early ss McIntosh pieces for the same reason.

Now... Saul era Marantz... that's a different matter entirely.
Magnificent stuff.

Listen for any hum from the loudspeakers (with the volume control set to zero) on the 2385 you're thinking of buying. If you hear any -- the P/S needs work. The health of the coupling capacitors, driver and power transistors is also an area to give consideration to unless you know that the amp's bias and balance have been adjusted, and both are set to the original mfgr. spec and will hold it.

Good luck -- you're gonna plunk down a lot of lucre for a 2385 in this day and age.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

Listen for any hum from the loudspeakers (with the volume control set to zero) on the 2385 you're thinking of buying. If you hear any -- the P/S needs work. The health of the coupling capacitors, driver and power transistors is also an area to give consideration to unless you know that the amp's bias and balance have been adjusted, and both are set to the original mfgr. spec and will hold it.

Good luck -- you're gonna plunk down a lot of lucre for a 2385 in this day and age.

I definitely will thanks for the tips. Yes it appears prices are not getting any cheaper, I even saw the 2500 and the 2600 going for as much as $6000 or more on ePay. I figured that I better do this now if I don’t want to pay even more.

 

[Doodski]

Beautiful looking Marantz pieces.

Looks like you are one of the Marantz guys I know are on ASR.

Looks like I will be pulling the trigger on a 2385 sooner than expected, I think I’ve found one that is to my liking. Some capacitors have been changed, but supposedly nothing drastic, of course everything cleaned and supposedly fully functional. That’s one reason why I was asking about the filter capacitors, because they were not changed on this unit. I got a little nervous about the other one when he told me they replace those two filter capacitors with four of them.

In this situation it is better to get a stock unit and then you know the components are the proper values and part numbers. Technicians secretly dislike working on something that has been worked on by a techy previously. It's just better to have a untouched unit.

 

[mhardy6647]

^^ sage advice.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

In this situation it is better to get a stock unit and then you know the components are the proper values and part numbers. Technicians secretly dislike working on something that has been worked on by a techy previously. It's just better to have a untouched unit.

I could imagine that techs would rather have something original then work done before. I have a construction business, and it’s the same way… I wish you called me first!

I’ll see what happens, but I’m getting some good advice.

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh, and apropos of (almost) nothing I did find a photo of the innards of that aforementioned, astonishingly beefy, champagne-faced, engraved labeled Marantz 2215.



I unfortunately don't have a similar photo of the guts of the 2215B -- at least, not that I am recalling at the moment...

 

[Steven Holt]

Heh. I actually had a 2020 (unsuffixed) for a while. Whoops, I guess it was a 2015, based on the one blurry photo I have handy . Quite a bit better built than the more common 2020B 2015B and, indeed, heavier, too.
It was a scrap pile find, and grungy enough looking that I never even had the nerve to try bringing it up. Hung on to it for a while, but finally gave it away. View attachment 228469

Still have a 2020B, as it happens -- one which my son found on the sidewalk in Hanover, NH when he was at a tennis camp at Dartmouth in his high school days (the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree). That one works fine. I don't much care for the sound of that era of Marantz hardware, so it's basically a shelf queen. I think I did some basic rehab to that one, but I'd have to pop the top to be sure.



PS I did have a 2215B for a while, too -- like the 2220/2220B, the 2215B shows many signs of having been "value-engineered" compared to the unsuffixed version; the loss of weight being the most immediately salient.


View attachment 228471
(I managed to break the already compromised speaker selector switch shaft on this poor rascal )

To that, I can only say.....You Lucky Devil!

 

[Prana Ferox]

If there are any caps that need to be replaced it tends to be in the power supply section. Old 70s (and esp 60s) caps were often underspecced for the temperatures and voltages they were exposed to. It used to be hard to replace them because modern caps didn't need to be remotely as big for the capacitance, so you had to make a physically smaller cap fit; if you just cranked the capacitance to get the form factor right you risked overloading something else. Nowadays it's just hard to get discrete components at all.

Common wear items are the moving parts - speaker relays, potentiometers (especially potentiometers), power switches/relays etc. The ability to source replacements often lead people to try repairing the existing parts, which can be tricky - and drowning a pot or slider in DeOxit is more likely to do harm than good. Light bulbs are also a hassle and replacing them with LEDs can be both tricky and often looks horrible (never, ever use blue LEDs in vintage gear.)

I understand restorer-john's comments and he certainly has more exposure and experience than I do, but I would make the comment that there was a massive amount of materials science advancement between 1970 and 1990. Anything '90s that's made it this long is likely to live forever (assuming it doesn't cook under decades of dust accumulation.)

 

[sam_adams]

OK guys so I found a 2385

If you don't already have it, here is the Service Manual for the Marantz 2385. Good luck with the restoration.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

Thanks!

 

[restorer-john]

I got a little nervous about the other one when he told me they replace those two filter capacitors with four of them.

The original capacitors are dual capacitors. Inside each can there are two 6800uF capacitors (three terminals). Such capacitors are not made anymore, so the only option is to replace them with 2 separate capacitors. As the 2385 has twin secondary windings (one for each channel), there are two (2) double capacitors which would need four (4) modern replacements.

Personally, I would get them tested and likely leave them alone.

I have some mid-late 70s Sony gear with similar dual electrolytics- they test fine so I'm leaving them be for now.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

The original capacitors are dual capacitors. Inside each can there are two 6800uF capacitors (three terminals). Such capacitors are not made anymore, so the only option is to replace them with 2 separate capacitors. As the 2385 has twin secondary windings (one for each channel), there are two (2) double capacitors which would need four (4) modern replacements.

View attachment 228602
View attachment 228603
Personally, I would get them tested and likely leave them alone.

I have some mid-late 70s Sony gear with similar dual electrolytics- they test fine so I'm leaving them be for now.

Ahhh so the reason the one unit had the 4 new filter caps is valid, if they tested faulty or out of spec.

Is there a chance that changing them would alter the sound signature? To me it seems like it should not since it’s in the power section of the receiver.

Edit;
Lets say I buy a 2385 and those filter caps are bad, or eventually go bad or out of spec. Like you said I will need 4 to replace them, are they hard to replace for someone qualified, and is there a preferred type/brand?

 

[restorer-john]

Ahhh so the reason the one unit had the 4 new filter caps is valid, if they tested faulty or out of spec.

Is there a chance that changing them would alter the sound signature? To me it seems like it should not since it’s in the power section of the receiver.

Absolutely it can. The key with any capacitor replacement in the power supply is to ensure absolute lowest possible impedance of the connections, particularly the central 0V (where the two caps are connected + to -). Dual type capacitors were done not for cost reasons, but for performance.

If such a 2 for 1 replacement is done sensibly and carefully, the results can be just as good as before. Poorly done, it can be a disaster.

When you get the receiver, post some detailed pictures of the internals, we can advise on anything we don't like the look of.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

Absolutely it can. The key with any capacitor replacement in the power supply is to ensure absolute lowest possible impedance of the connections, particularly the central 0V (where the two caps are connected + to -). Dual type capacitors were done not for cost reasons, but for performance.

If such a 2 for 1 replacement is done sensibly and carefully, the results can be just as good as before. Poorly done, it can be a disaster.

When you get the receiver, post some detailed pictures of the internals, we can advise on anything we don't like the look of.

I’m really glad I asked, this is invaluable to me thank you!

The one was definitely changed, because he told me there was four filter capacitors put in there in place of the two originals. so that one’s off the table, just because I have no idea what the technician did, and I can’t control what goes in. To end up with something that doesn’t sound like the original would really bum me out.

There is another one, and it has had some capacitors changed but not the two big filter caps. Let me see if I can get some pictires.

Thanks again.

 

[restorer-john]

I’m really glad I asked, this is invaluable to me thank you!

The one was definitely changed, because he told me there was four filter capacitors put in there in place of the two originals. so that one’s off the table, just because I have no idea what the technician did, and I can’t control what goes in. To end up with something that doesn’t sound like the original would really bum me out.

There is another one, and it has had some capacitors changed but not the two big filter caps. Let me see if I can get some pictires.

Thanks again.

Look, I wouldn't let it rule out a receiver like that at the right price, especially if it was well done.

 

[Deleted member 50971]

This next paragraph is something that I found online, and as everyone knows there is no shortage of opinions and suggestions about what kind of capacitors to use once ours go out of spec. So here it is and I’m wondering after reading this first of all is it true? Second, as long as the capacitors are the same spec and of equal quality compared to the originals… wouldn’t they basically sound the same, or would a higher quality capacitor (than the originals) possibly make it sound better, or have less degradation of the signal than the original? I realize that’s probably a slippery slope, and it seems to me like it may be inevitable that you’re going to change the sound signature slightly compared to the original.


Quote;
Although all the capacitors used in an audio circuit have an effect on sound quality, the largest impact comes from components that are in the signal path. Using high quality audio grade capacitors helps to significantly reduce degradation of the audio signal”

 

[Audiofire]

Jim Smith claims that people often don't know how to solder, applying heat at 350 degrees Celsius when the liquidus temperature of the solder should be the indication, and heat can set the service life back by many years, as well as reworking solder joints too much. Oxidation prevents a proper solder joint, even if it looks good, so he recommended to preapply separate flux. If it ain't broken, don't fix it is always an overarching principle, but you might not have the test instrument for electrolytic capacitors and they are strictly speaking not made for a service life of 30 years anyway.

Not sure if you have seen this that has an in-depth look at important details often glossed over in guides:

Servicing Safety and Replacement of Electrolytic Capacitors

Health Hazards "The limited energy in capacitors (E = (1/2) C V²) restricts the duration of the shock, even if there are no circuit breakers to trip. The shock current will be limited by the body resistance, and the duration of the shock will be characterized by the time constant (τ = R C)...

www.audiosciencereview.com