Vintage HT help please

[Tbart]

Hi Everyone,

I’m looking forward to your ideas. My wife and I would like to “refresh” our recently rekindled VINTAGE 7.1 dual-subwoofer HT (20 years old, dormant for last 10 years). The kids once happily used the area, primarily for watching sports, movies and gaming. Now, my wife and I, recently retired, have more time for movies and welcome budget-minded suggestions to enhance the HT experience. I would like to start with either repairing 1 damaged speaker or replacing both front speakers. We have resorted to 5.1 until the speaker situation is resolved.

Room description: Daylight basement

Overall room dimensions: 15’ wide x 32’ long. The space is shared with a home office. Ceiling is 7’ 10”

The rear speakers are 17’ from the front (TV) wall, 10’ apart, mounted from the ceiling and angled downward. A 6’ vertical moveable partition screen is 18’ from the front and acts as a visual divider between the HT and home office/alternately utilized.

4-across lounge seating is 11’ from the front wall, centered on TV.

Side speakers are 11’ from the front wall, 6’ above finished floor, wall mounted and tilted downward.

The front stand-mounted speakers are 8’ apart, 2’ 6” from the front wall and 2’ 6” above the finished floor.

Center speaker, on AudioEngine DS2 stands, is centered below the TV on a floor stand 18” above finished floor and tilted upward.

Subwoofers are against the front wall, on either side of the TV screen. Right side subwoofer is 9” from a corner, the left subwoofer abuts the audio cabinet

The walls are painted plaster over 2 x 4 studs, drop ceiling with wood panels and wall to wall carpeting over concrete floor throughout.

Equipment:

SONY STR-DA3000ES Receiver

SONY UBP-X700/M Blu Ray Player (New)

Technics SL-10 Linear Tracking Turntable

XBOX 360 Call of Duty Edition Console

LG B2 65” OLED TV (New)

(6) RCA PRO-LX550 (Radio Shack 40-5037) Linauem Dipole Tweeter Speakers, 5” Kevlar woven woofer with foam surround (Front L/R, Side L/R, Rear L/R) 1 has foam surround rot.

PSB Image 8c Center Speaker. 1” Aluminum Dome Tweeter, (2) 5 ¼” Polypropylene woofers with rubber surround

(2) Paradigm PDR-10 subwoofers, daisy-chained from LFE output

Problem: Due to 10 years of non-use, 1 of the LX500s has a damaged driver foam surround

Objective: Refresh our vintage 7.1 system in a cost effective manner. The present set up is “OK” for HT, but older ears would welcome enhanced movie dialogue.

Solutions: 1) re-foam driver in damaged speaker and hope for the best

2a) update drivers in the damaged speaker and its speaker pair

2b) possibly add crossovers to above modified speaker pair

3) replace the front speakers with an updated design (perhaps EMOTIVA B1+) and in the future, consider a matching center channel upgrade (EMOTIVA C1+). Keep the surround speakers as is. This would allow for an extra surround speaker, just-in-case of more foam rot.

4) To be determined, based on your suggestions

Budget: already exceeded with haul-out of old rear projection TV and install of new wall-mounted TV and blu ray player. “Contingency fund:” $700.

Thank you!

 

[dorakeg]

Re-foam will be your cheapest and best solution.

 

[Tbart]

Thanks. Cheap and best is a good combo.

 

[Mr. Widget]

From the thread title I expected to see something like this...

I guess we have different ideas of "vintage".

In any event, I would second the recommendation for refoaming all of your speakers that use foam surrounds. You can find foam surrounds on eBay and tackle this yourself if you are careful and do a bit of research, but for most of us it is best to find a quality speaker repair shop and have them do the work. Assuming you haven't over driven the drivers with failed or failing surrounds, they should be as good as new once the new surrounds are installed.

 

[voodooless]

Dipole speakers aren’t really a thing anymore in HTs nowadays. Since you have 6, that will be a costly replacement. I don’t think a refoam is economical either. That won’t let any budget for a new AVR either.

Also, dipoles as front L and R is curious.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Dipole speakers aren’t really a thing anymore in HTs nowadays. Since you have 6, that will be a costly replacement. I don’t think a refoam is economical either. That won’t let any budget for a new AVR either.

Also, dipoles as front L and R is curious.

Some people like dipoles, others like omnis, others prefer....

If the owner was reasonably happy with them then I say keep them, otherwise a full replacement will be costly even with something as modest as changing out to JBL 305Ps which would undoubtedly be an upgrade and save on needing to buy a powerful AVR.

 

[fpitas]

Were it me, I'd hold out for the A7s in Widget's post.

 

[voodooless]

Ah, looks like those speakers aren’t exactly dipole in the HT sense. They have a tweeter radiating front and back.

Here is a guide to replace the surrounds:

Fixing Foam Rot

 

[fpitas]

If you fix the surround yourself, be absolutely sure you maintain voice coil alignment until the new foam glue has thoroughly dried. Otherwise, you will no longer have a useful driver.

 

[Tbart]

Thanks for the input, all.

Mr. Widget, That's VINTAGE! If I can find the right shop, refoaming all 6 makes sense. In the event of an upgrade, why the JBL 305ps? Would you consider them for L and R only, or all 6?

Voodooless, The RCA speakers were originally selected for convenience (RS within a mile) and to be "disposable" in the rec room environment. They worked better than expected. What would be your option, assuming I would rather not replace the AVR?

fpitas, There's a plan!

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

If I can find the right shop, refoaming all 6 makes sense. In the event of an upgrade, why the JBL 305ps? Would you consider them for L and R only, or all 6?

305Ps are self-powered, and you can get them for under $100 each. IMO you'd probably want something a tiny bit larger for L+R (I have 306Ps which I got open box on amazon for ~$100 each), but they're remarkably capable given their size/costs.

 

[Tbart]

Voodooless and fpitas, Thanks for the refoaming hints. My preference is to have the surrounds professionally replaced, if possible. I had 30-YO Boston A40s sucessfully and economically refoamed, but the technician has subsequently retired.

E-V, Thanks for the information. That's something to consider.

 

[fpitas]

Voodooless and fpitas, Thanks for the refoaming hints. My preference is to have the surrounds professionally replaced, if possible. I had 30-YO Boston A40s sucessfully and economically refoamed, but the technician has subsequently retired.

E-V, Thanks for the information. That's something to consider.

Yeah, that's the problem. Our disposable economy means you often have to DIY. It is possible if you're careful.

 

[Tbart]

Thanks for the encouragement, fpitas. If I trash it, plan B would be to replace the woofers in a pair.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Mr. Widget, That's VINTAGE! If I can find the right shop, refoaming all 6 makes sense. In the event of an upgrade, why the JBL 305ps?

Yeah, I love that WWII battleship aesthetic.

I suggested the 305ps because they are also compact like what you have been using. Not knowing if you have the space or desire for larger speakers I figured they would be a very good upgrade and they offer incredible bang for the buck.

That said, while I have never heard your current speakers they were considered a pretty good speaker back in their day. Fixing them is probably not a bad idea.

 

[JeffS7444]

SONY STR-DA3000ES Receiver

That's definitely become a bit "vintage" in the sense of no HDMI, no support for newer audio formats and no room correction. OTOH, it's got a number settings which you can adjust manually.

Starting on page 41 of the manual, why not try "CENTER MID XXX dB" setting at say +3 dB (season to taste)
And per page 42, "CENTER MID XXX Hz" at 3 kHz
Maybe that's all you need for improved dialog clarity.

Manual is here:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/4247/42471881M.pdf

 

[newmedia]

I would replace the one damage speaker with similar size speaker or replace the woffer only. These are 5inch woffer? These are design to play 80hz and up.

 

[Tbart]

JeffS7444, Good call on center MID EQ settings! Thanks.

newmedia, I considered replacing the 5" woofer in two speakers to keep them an identical pair, since I presumed there would be differences with 1 newer replacement driver and 1 twenty-two year old driver. Thanks.

 

[TimW]

I doubt the RCA speakers will sound the same with an entirely different woofer and they probably aren't worth repairing if you have to go that route. If the cost of refoaming is significant I wouldn't bother trying to save them. I say use the working RCA speakers as surrounds until they rot away, then replace them with something better.

Your current center channel is an MTM design which is not ideal for horizontal placement due to poor off axis performance. This is a fact Amir constantly points out in his reviews. 3-way center speaker designs do much better in this regard.

The Emotiva B1+ you mentioned measures very well for its price, in fact it receives a higher olive score than the aforementioned JBL 305P. Unfortunately the C1+ does not measure very well at all. A great alternative to the C1+ is the Infinity RC263 which measures very well. The matching Infinity R162 bookshelf speakers aren't quite as good as the B1+ but they are still quite good. Just noticed the Infinity speakers appear to have been discontinued though.

 

[Tbart]

TimW, You are on the on-ramp of my dilemma circle. If I decide to use the remaining RCAs as back and surround only, which bookshelf speakers for L and R, without a solid choice for center?