Uncoloured phono cartridges

[killdozzer]

Neutral is non-colouring. In the terms of carts it's the least colouring. It shouldn't be a point of view.

The rest of the equipment doesn't matter. Imagine it is the most neutral equipment out there and it is up to the cart to colour it or not. So, which one is colouring the least?

 

[Robin L]

Neutral is non-colouring. In the terms of carts it's the least colouring. It shouldn't be a point of view.

The rest of the equipment doesn't matter. Imagine it is the most neutral equipment out there and it is up to the cart to colour it or not. So, which one is colouring the least?

The electronics. Phono cartridges are on the bad end of the spectrum as regards "neutrality", plenty of frequency response deviations, distortions, distractions, irritations. Shure used to put out a good product. Weird that so many players drop out of the LP racket just as the market starts to open up.

 

[watchnerd]

The rest of the equipment doesn't matter.

Of course the rest of the equipment matters.

The cartridge is part of a resonant system with the arm and headshell.

That's why cartridges bother to report compliance numbers -- so you can calculate the right kind of arm and headshell based on effective mass to use with it.

Your statement is blatantly incorrect from an engineering POV.

 

[watchnerd]

I'm running 60pF interconnects to the phono stage and no loading (effectively 50pF) on the phono stage. I can't get any lower than that short of possibly rewiring the tonearm. It's the nature of the VM540ML at least going by https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...udio-technica-vm540ml-phono-cartridge-review/ and here: https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.lowbeats.de/test-audio-technica-vm540ml/

Just got my VM540ML today.

Running it at 258 pF (58 pF from cable, 200 loading at amp), which fits right in with the 250 pF loading discussed in the article.

On my 2nd LP, no complaints for the price paid, so far.

 

[watchnerd]

On listening to the VM540ML further:

It's quite good for the money. The tracking, in particular, is noteworthy, regardless of price.

But I wouldn't call it uncolored.

There is an octave-wide emphasis above 7-8 kHz that is noticeable, not because it is peaky and high, but because it is broad. It's reported in the review and it's pretty obvious when you swap from another cartridge.

It's not so high as to render things "airy", nor low and sharp enough to be "bright", but it does call more attention to snare and cymbals, adding sizzle, and upper brass instrument timbres.

It might get totally out of control in a bright room or with bright speakers, but in a dull room it might actually be pleasant.

Me? I have tile floors...but soft dome tweeters.

A broad shelf EQ / PEQ could tame it pretty easily, I would think.

The Nagaoka MP-500 also has a broad treble uplift, too, but it's starts a little lower, rolls off a little earlier, and seems a hair lower in magnitude. It sounds a little plumper in the bass* than the VM540ML*, which overall makes it seem a little more mellow in comparison.

*with my headshell and my arm

 

[dougi]

On listening to the VM540ML further:

It's quite good for the money. The tracking, in particular, is noteworthy, regardless of price.

But I wouldn't call it uncolored.

There is an octave-wide emphasis above 7-8 kHz that is noticeable, not because it is peaky and high, but because it is broad. It's reported in the review and it's pretty obvious when you swap from another cartridge.

It's not so high as to render things "airy", nor low and sharp enough to be "bright", but it does call more attention to snare and cymbals, adding sizzle, and upper brass instrument timbres.

It might get totally out of control in a bright room or with bright speakers, but in a dull room it might actually be pleasant.

Me? I have tile floors...but soft dome tweeters.

A broad shelf EQ / PEQ could tame it pretty easily, I would think.

The Nagaoka MP-500 also has a broad treble uplift, too, but it's starts a little lower, rolls off a little earlier, and seems a hair lower in magnitude. It sounds a little plumper in the bass* than the VM540ML*, which overall makes it seem a little more mellow in comparison.

*with my headshell and my arm

Yeah I EQ mine a bit. It is a slightly strange cart arm resonance-wise. A low but broad peak (8 Hz) with mine that doesn't change too much in the classically expected way with added mass.

 

[watchnerd]

Yeah I EQ mine a bit. It is a slightly strange cart arm resonance-wise. A low but broad peak (8 Hz) with mine that doesn't change too much in the classically expected way with added mass.

Interesting.

What headshell and arm are you using with it?

 

[Helicopter]

...
There is an octave-wide emphasis above 7-8 kHz that is noticeable, not because it is peaky and high, but because it is broad. It's reported in the review and it's pretty obvious when you swap from another cartridge.
...

Too bad. That is the one thing I was hoping they might have tweaked compared to the 440MLb, one of the best carts I have had.

 

[watchnerd]

Too bad. That is the one thing I was hoping they might have tweaked compared to the 440MLb, one of the best carts I have had.

Oh, it's *WAAAAY* more neutral than the 440MLb, at least at ~250 pF.

I'm picking nits; if I didn't have a large bench of other cartridges to compare it to, I might not notice.

And it's definitely a huge improvement over <$100 carts.

I think it's definitely worth the asking price of $250, and could be enough cartridge for most people for a very long time, especially since the stylus is replaceable.

A little EQ to flatten it out and I think you'd have a hard time doing better for $250.

I am curious what the VM740ML adds, though, given the only difference is the body. Which might show up in the bass...or not at all.

 

[watchnerd]

Too bad. That is the one thing I was hoping they might have tweaked compared to the 440MLb, one of the best carts I have had.

I'd also say if you're going to get one, get the matching headshell.

The one they show in the picture at the top of this page:

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/line-series/vm-series?product_list_order=price

 

[Helicopter]

I'd also say if you're going to get one, get the matching headshell.

Definitely. Same for the OC9s and VM95s, and especially if you are going to use 52mm overhang like I do. AT headshells are very reasonably priced, nice, and match the cartridges well physically and aesthetically.

 

[restorer-john]

Playing around with vinyl playback is a rabbit-hole one can very easily fall into

What better time than the week between Christmas and New Year to deep dive into tweaking cartridges and TTs?

 

[restorer-john]

The upcoming high end Technics amp has an interesting automatic phono EQ (and also crosstalk cancelation) based on a test record but unfortunately its not cheap:

Intelligent Phono EQ

The Intelligent Phono EQ mounted in the SU-R1000 utilises the sound quality improvement technology for DSP, which Technics has accumulated through the development of LAPC, in order to realise high sound quality not possible with analogue Phono-EQ. This technology consists of three parts: 1. Accurate EQ Curve, 2. Crosstalk Canceller and 3. Response Optimiser. These functions can be turned ON/OFF to suit the user’s preference.

1. Accurate EQ Curve
Accurate EQ curve is achieved by a hybrid analogue-digital system. The high-gain low-pass filter (LPF) performs analogue processing, and high frequencies are raised after the A/D conversion. The use of the 40-dB LPF in the analogue region suppresses the bit loss during digital filter processing, and high frequencies are raised with high accuracy in the digital region to achieve a high S/N ratio.

2. Crosstalk Canceller
This function measures the crosstalk characteristic of the installed cartridge by using the crosstalk measuring signal recorded on the Calibration Record bundled with the SU-R1000 and then performs reverse-correction using the built-in DSP to achieve significant improvement of the crosstalk characteristic. This results in sharper sound image and more expansive sound ambience.

3. Response Optimiser
This function measures the frequency characteristic of the installed cartridge by using a TSP (Time Stretched Pulse) signal recorded on the bundled Calibration Record, and corrects characteristic disturbance. It corrects the effect of impedance matching. between the cartridge and phono equaliser to bring out the true sound quality of the cartridge. This technology aims to improve sound quality by providing a selector such as a switch in the high-sensitivity phono input line for the removal of the possibility of noise mixing.

The bundled calibration record will be available as a spare part, as they will surely get damaged often. We should try to get hold of a few.

 

[watchnerd]

What better time than the week between Christmas and New Year to deep dive into tweaking cartridges and TTs?

Exactly.

Who has time for such nonsense the rest of the year?

 

[dougi]

Interesting.

What headshell and arm are you using with it?

Straight onto a vpi 9" unipivot whose weight is hard to track down but 9-11 grams from memory. Resonance barely changed with or without a 4 gram added weight but left with weight on. A review I can't remember where noticed this too and compared with a previous AT that had higher but peakier resonance.

 

[watchnerd]

Straight onto a vpi 9" unipivot whose weight is hard to track down but 9-11 grams from memory. Resonance barely changed with or without a 4 gram added weight but left with weight on. A review I can't remember where noticed this too and compared with a previous AT that had higher but peakier resonance.

Ah, I see.

This is why I like having removable headshells. AT sells matching headshells in 13, 15, and 18 gram weights for the VM540ML, so you can pick whichever weight matches your desired effective mass.

 

[watchnerd]

Here is another graph of the VM540ML, from the LowBeats review:

Unfortunately, I don't see any notes on what loading they used.

 

[watchnerd]

I found a possible downside of the plastic body of the VM 5-series:

My grounding wire came undone and I got not only hum (expected), but also buzzing (first time).

I haven't had buzzing with any of my other carts (most of which have metal bodies), so the claim from AT that 7-series metal body adds extra electromagnetic shielding may be true.

Re-attaching the grounding wire made both the hum and buzz go away, or at least at normal gain settings; I didn't crank the gain to check.

 

[dougi]

Looking at the rumble spectrum I get more mains hum than other carts but less mains 2nd harmonic (or the other way around I can't quite remember as I am traveling). When you get your test records let us know how you go.

 

[watchnerd]

Looking at the rumble spectrum I get more mains hum than other carts but less mains 2nd harmonic (or the other way around I can't quite remember as I am traveling). When you get your test records let us know how you go.

We'll see if the VM540ML is still in the system when the new test records arrive.

I've given it until 12/31 before I need to put the ART9XA back in. I've barely got 1 hour on the ART9XA and I'd like to get in some quality time with it before vacation is over.