Towers VS bookshelves: Can people hear the differences?

[warthor]

Many bookshelf speakers have scored extremely well on preference scores, even better than towers in many cases. There are many reasons to buy bookshelf speakers and many reasons to buy towers. But if bookshelf speakers receive better preference scores, are cheaper, and people really can't tell the difference in blind tests, there may be fewer reasons to buy towers. (I actually prefer towers for looks, but if the above are true its hard for me to justify the purchase).

I was wondering if there are any data on tower vs. bookshelves in blind tests (whether it is the point of the study or not). Can people tell they are listening to towers in blind tests, for example?

 

[watchnerd]

people really can't tell the difference in blind tests

People can tell speakers apart in a blind test.

Can you clarify what you mean and what study you're referring to?

 

[warthor]

People can tell speakers apart in a blind test.

Can you clarify what you mean and what study you're referring to?

I simply meant to say "if people cannot tell the difference between towers and bookshelf speakers ...". The purpose of my post was to ask about that very issue. Can you share the study?

 

[digitalfrost]

But if bookshelf speakers receive better preference scores, are cheaper, and people really can't tell the difference in blind tests, there may be fewer reasons to buy towers. (I actually prefer towers for looks, but if the above are true its hard for me to justify the purchase).

I can't help you on the data, but unless you put bookshelf speakers literally on a shelf that is already there, you're gonna need stands. KEF R3 are 1600€/pair here, and R5 are 2400€. Now for that price diff you can get some really nice stands, but the KEF Performance Speaker Stands are 450€. That is a pretty normal price for stands, and you almost can't get nice ones below 300€/pair (see also https://www.liedtke-metalldesign.eu/). So the price diff is not as much as it first seems.

From a space persective, bookshelves on stands take about the same space a tower speaker, so unless one was willing to DIY some stands, I think if you have the space, towers are always worth the money, for the volume increase alone for the woofer. That said, I'm using bookshelves, because I don't listen in a typical living room scenario.

That said, you could argue that any speaker needs adjustable stands to get the tweeter to the perfect height, so then my argument would be redundant.

 

[pozz]

I simply meant to say "if people cannot tell the difference between towers and bookshelf speakers ...". The purpose of my post was to ask about that very issue. Can you share the study?

The main difference between bookshelves and towers is bass extension. Other factors (like radiation) are design-specific.

So there is no reason to go for one over the other. The measurements will tell you what you need to know in the end.

 

[watchnerd]

I think this is just going to turn into a repeat of one of the many towers vs bookshelf threads already on the site.

 

[warthor]

I think this is just going to turn into a repeat of one of the many towers vs bookshelf threads already on the site.

Sorry! I was simply wondering about blind tests. I am not familiar with that literature.

 

[watchnerd]

Sorry! I was simply wondering about blind tests. I am not familiar with that literature.

I don't know of any literature that specifically studies towers vs bookshelves because with any music with large amounts of bass content you don't need a blind study -- the differences are obvious.

The study would be pretty pointless as it would just tell us things we already know:

1. Speakers can be differentiated in blind tests, even amongst the same type

2. Bass differences between tower and bookshelf speakers are obvious. You don't need a blind test to study this.

3. Radiation patterns can already be measured and correlated with known preferences.

4. Cabinet vibrations can be measured directly. You don't need a blind study for this.

 

[pozz]

@warthor Your questions are valid, but you also answered them in your first post. If you look at the Harman preference studies there is no indiciation that a specific speaker size or shape is preferred. What matters is the anechoic performance and final measured performance at the listening position. That defines what you hear. The rest is up to you whether you want to buy purely based on measured performance or looks and so forth.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

I'd say in a lot of cases, assuming the speakers being compared are of good quality, within a certain "ballpark" of size/performance and playing at equal volumes, a blind-folded listener would have a real hard time identifying bookshelf from tower.

 

[watchnerd]

I'd say in a lot of cases, assuming the speakers being compared are of good quality, within a certain "ballpark" of size/performance and playing at equal volumes, a blind-folded listener would have a real hard time identifying bookshelf from tower.

Maybe on flute music.

But if I play some pipe organ or EDM?

Even grand piano.

 

[mhardy6647]

What about loudspeakers that are neither towers nor bookshelves?

 

[watchnerd]

What about loudspeakers that are neither towers nor bookshelves?

All those speakers will be disliked by speaker design fundamentalists because they have weird spins and/or scored poorly on consensus listening tests.

 

[Cbdb2]

If your comparing apples to apples of course a tower will sound better. But you have to compare the same speaker type. I have a pair of 3way Athenas and a pair of 2way bookshelf's from the same model line. They sound identical at moderate volumes except for the extended low end of the 3 way. But, the 3 way can play louder before excessive distortion. And at higher levels the 3way has cleaner mids because the woofer takes a huge load of the midrange driver. Thats the big advantage of having a woofer, making life easier for the important midrange, ("where the music lives"). This can be done with subs but its not as easy as it seems, and may cost more. The advances in drivers over the last ten years have created some fantastic bookshelfs so its possible to get great sound from them, but all these manufacturers also have 3way models for a reason.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Maybe on flute music.

But if I play some pipe organ or EDM?

Even grand piano.

at the same volume? sure...

like I said, as long as they are within a reasonable size/performance parameter. If we're talking about some 10 foot tall tower with 8 drivers in it compared to a little 10" tall bookshelf, different story. But a larger bookshelf speaker compared to a tower with similar sized drivers? I bet you'd not be able to note a difference...

 

[watchnerd]

at the same volume? sure...

like I said, as long as they are within a reasonable size/performance parameter. If we're talking about some 10 foot tall tower with 8 drivers in it compared to a little 10" tall bookshelf, different story. But a larger bookshelf speaker compared to a tower with similar sized drivers? I bet you'd not be able to note a difference...

Well, I have larger/medium bookshelves. Previously, the Contour 20s and now the Heritage Specials.

When you have bottom octave bass (<40Hz, especially <32 Hz) in the music, such as in pipe organ or synth, it's obvious when it's reduced, even at modest listening volumes.

Low C on a pipe organ is usually about 16 Hz.

P.S. I play bass, both double and electric.

 

[JustJones]

I guess these come as a kit or I would need to knock a wall out to get them in the house.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Well, I have larger/medium bookshelves. Previously, the Contour 20s and now the Heritage Specials.

When you have bottom octave bass (<40Hz, especially <32 Hz) in the music, such as in pipe organ or synth, it's obvious when it's reduced, even at modest listening volumes.

Low C on a pipe organ is usually about 16 Hz.

P.S. I play bass, both double and electric.

Do many tower speakers hit 16hz? Or even 32 for that matter...without a sub?

 

[watchnerd]

Do many tower speakers hit 16hz? Or even 32 for that matter...without a sub?

Those that do will be able to be distinguished from bookshelves on bass heavy music in a blind test.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Those that do will be able to be distinguished from bookshelves on bass heavy music in a blind test.

yeah, and I never said there were no towers that wouldn't be able to be distinguished from a bookshelf. Again, given speakers that exist within a certain range of parameters. For instance, take the DBR62 bookshelf vs the DBR52 floor standing version. I mean obviously, if you have one speaker that's capable of getting into sub territory and one that isn't, you might tell them apart on some tracks. But that isn't really specifically related to one being a tower and the other not. I'm sure you could find some bookshelf speakers that go lower than some towers.