Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

[okok]

@amirm can we get to the su9 pro first? it's the latest chip...

 

[Andrew Randle]

lulz...

The measurements tell you how it sounds.

That’s if you like the sound of monotones.

Kind of like approaching a woman with a tape measure to understand how she performs in bed.

Andrew

 

[Overseas]

Women are not made by engineers

 

[Grooved]

Right, but it's a "fight" that will never end
You canot stop hearsay and people's illusion or believes , despite having all arguments

Audiophiles want to believe, they are gear addicts, not music lovers.. so if they read a commercial stating that a white dac will sound clearer than a black dac, they will believe it and spread their believes on forums ...

Whats very funny in this hobby, its all these older guys with earlosses telling on forums thay can hear differences in dacs, cables, ...

I tend to force me to not believe anything based on one side only (or one measurement only), and always balance things because in a lot cases, the truth is in between and not on an extreme side.
In this sense, you're right at first, but playing a bit the devil's advocate role, I would say that:
- audiophiles can also be both gear addicts and music lovers, I've met some like that. What you're describing is the extreme side of audiophiles that unfortunately is the most virulent side, and sometimes being more obsessed by the look of their system than it's efficiency.
- ear loss with age doesn't mean you can't listen some things better than when younger: it's mainly loss of level in some frequencies range, and as long as it's the same ears that compare two tracks, it's not a problem to hear a dynamic difference for example.
Even if you have a 5db loss between 3k and 5k because of a damage, you would still be able to hear the difference between a track and the same one that has 1db more between 4k and 4.5k

Measurement is good, and better, measurements are great because if it's based on one measurement only, you can be wrong.
Imagine a 123dB SINAD DAC that has a faulty crosstalk: you look at SINAD and "Oh yeah, this one is good"; then you listen and find the sound stage a bit strange...

 

[antcollinet]

No. This is a forum for followers of hearsay of people like you. People that use their own ears at least make their own decisions.

Can you point to one person here who doesn't use their own ears AS WELL AS measurements to inform them?

But before you point the finger, make sure you can also point to the evidence that convicts them.

 

[antcollinet]

That’s if you like the sound of monotones.

Kind of like approaching a woman with a tape measure to understand how she performs in bed.

Andrew

Nice first post.

Read the room.

Jesus*

* this is not blasphemy - Jesus was exceptionally good at reading the room.

 

[beefkabob]

That’s if you like the sound of monotones.

Kind of like approaching a woman with a tape measure to understand how she performs in bed.

Andrew

Made a new account because your old one was banned?

I'm glad to see that you think of your tube amp as a woman. For the price you pay for mediocre to garbage sound reproduction, you're certainly getting fucked, so it's an understandable position. I hope you clean it well with disinfectant before selling it for a huge loss on Reverb.

Women are not made by engineers

Engineers with daughters would beg to differ.

I tend to force me to not believe anything based on one side only (or one measurement only), and always balance things because in a lot cases, the truth is in between and not on an extreme side.

The rule with rules is that there are exceptions. A lot of the time the truth is between two extremes, but in this case, the extreme is one sided. Audio equipment is for sound reproduction. That's it. There are measurable aspects of sound reproduction. There is nothing of importance that is immeasurable. It's just plain engineering.

In this sense, you're right at first, but playing a bit the devil's advocate role, I would say that:
- audiophiles can also be both gear addicts and music lovers, I've met some like that. What you're describing is the extreme side of audiophiles that unfortunately is the most virulent side, and sometimes being more obsessed by the look of their system than it's efficiency.

Gear addiction is fine. I can see aesthetic pleasure in design. None of that has a damn thing to do with audio reproduction though. The problem is that people see magic in sound reproduction and then spend thousands and thousands for an inferior product that may or may not have a pretty box. IT IS A SCAM.

Measurement is good, and better, measurements are great because if it's based on one measurement only, you can be wrong.
Imagine a 123dB SINAD DAC that has a faulty crosstalk: you look at SINAD and "Oh yeah, this one is good"; then you listen and find the sound stage a bit strange...

You're now just attacking some theoretical person who only looks at one measurement. ASR provides a host of measurements to check all important aspects of sound reproduction. Oh sure, there are other things that could be measured, but science tells us they likely don't matter. Amir even includes some of those measures for those who care. Anyway, you're just beating on a strawman.

 

[Andrew Randle]

Made a new account because your old one was banned?

I'm glad to see that you think of your tube amp as a woman. For the price you pay for mediocre to garbage sound reproduction, you're certainly getting fucked, so it's an understandable position. I hope you clean it well with disinfectant before selling it for a huge loss on Reverb.

Engineers with daughters would beg to differ.

The rule with rules is that there are exceptions. A lot of the time the truth is between two extremes, but in this case, the extreme is one sided. Audio equipment is for sound reproduction. That's it. There are measurable aspects of sound reproduction. There is nothing of importance that is immeasurable. It's just plain engineering.

Gear addiction is fine. I can see aesthetic pleasure in design. None of that has a damn thing to do with audio reproduction though. The problem is that people see magic in sound reproduction and then spend thousands and thousands for an inferior product that may or may not have a pretty box. IT IS A SCAM.

You're now just attacking some theoretical person who only looks at one measurement. ASR provides a host of measurements to check all important aspects of sound reproduction. Oh sure, there are other things that could be measured, but science tells us they likely don't matter. Amir even includes some of those measures for those who care. Anyway, you're just beating on a strawman.

First time registered here. With my own name too. Thank you for the welcome.

Measurements are fine. Just that the current set used here (like the fore-mentioned tape measure) is too limited for where you write that you can use them to fully predict sonic characteristics.

Andrew

 

[beefkabob]

First time registered here. With my own name too. Thank you for the welcome.

Measurements are fine. Just that the current set used here (like the fore-mentioned tape measure) is too restricted if you write that you can use them to fully predict sonic characteristics.

Andrew

You walk into the science lab and declare that magic is real. Then you want a warm welcome?
The measurements are of sonic characteristics. What characteristics are being left out that you would like measured?

 

[Andrew Randle]

You walk into the science lab and declare that magic is real. Then you want a warm welcome?
The measurements are of sonic characteristics. What characteristics are being left out that you would like measured?

Multi tone fidelity with multiple simultaneous freq sweeps. And also first order differential phase changes with frequency. Perhaps with the support of a Matlab suite.

Andrew

 

[Killingbeans]

That’s if you like the sound of monotones.

Kind of like approaching a woman with a tape measure to understand how she performs in bed.

Andrew

More like doing simple measurements of a bed and using it as a prediction of how a partner will perform on it. If it isn't terrible, it probably won't matter much.

 

[Bleib]

That’s if you like the sound of monotones.

Kind of like approaching a woman with a tape measure to understand how she performs in bed.

Andrew

What a weird comparison, LMFAO
Today my DAC sounded bad because it had a headache and was not in the mood.
Hopefully if I let it rest for a few days it'll sound fantastic again.

 

[sourplum]

A select button on the left turns on the unit and then selects the input in sequence. Or you can use the included remote control:

Another DAC that has no direct choice of inputs by the remote, only sequential?
With direct input choice it could easy be used with my Harmony remote without messing up the chosen input.

 

[MabeHall]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping E70 stereo USB DAC with Bluetooth. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $349.
View attachment 243627
I really like the new white multi-segment display with its large volume level indicator. Response is excellent as you rotate the encoder. A select button on the left turns on the unit and then selects the input in sequence. Or you can use the included remote control:
View attachment 243628
Nice to see 12 volt trigger being a standard feature on new Topping products, allowing you to turn on one unit and have it turn on the others like amplifiers automatically.

The output can be programmed to be nominal 4 volts (default) or 5 volts. I focused on testing the former.

Edit: forgot to mention that you have independent control over the outputs. You can have either RCA or XLR active or both.

I had a minor compatibility issue with USB input defaulting to 16 bits instead of 24 bit as far as Windows is concerned. I was able to easily override this using Topping ASIO driver. I wonder if this is something to do with my system or a new thing with this DAC. Operation was otherwise flawless.

EDIT: above is fixed with a firmware update: https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/778017.html

Topping E70 Measurements
Let's start with our usual balanced output measurement:
View attachment 243629

I expect superb performance from Topping and that is exactly what we have, landing the E70 near the very top of the best DACs ever tested:
View attachment 243630

Distortion is incredibly low at -145 dB or so. SINAD as a result is dominated by the noise of the DAC combined with my analyzer:
View attachment 243632

Even using RCA outs we get full audible transparency:

View attachment 243633

I have modified my THD+N vs output level to show broader range:
View attachment 243634
As noted though, as you reduce output, the analyzer noise becomes more dominant as well so above is not a true picture of the DAC's performance.

Multitone performance is superb as expected:
View attachment 243635

Likewise for IMD distortion:
View attachment 243636

Linearity is perfect of course:
View attachment 243637

Jitter is now nicely handled across both older S/PDIF and new USB interfaces:
View attachment 243638

As usual you have a menu of DAC reconstruction filters but I suggest staying with default filter 3:
View attachment 243639
View attachment 243640

The excellent attenuation of the filter translates into great wide-band distortion+noise measurement vs frequency:

View attachment 243641

Conclusions
The E70 is another meticulously engineered DAC from Topping at a reasonable price. The bright and large display is great to read from far, making the DAC just as suitable for general 2-channel system as well as desktop. Nice add-ons such as trigger support, auto on/off, etc. complete the picture of a DAC approaching and essentially achieving perfection.

It is my pleasure to add Topping E70 DAC to my recommended list.
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Surely there is something different in all these Topping DACs other than a db or 2 of SINAD and trigger output. Where can I see a legitimate comparison chart?

 

[Killingbeans]

Where can I see a legitimate comparison chart?

Comparison of what?

 

[Doodski]

Surely there is something different in all these Topping DACs other than a db or 2 of SINAD and trigger output. Where can I see a legitimate comparison chart?

There is a SINAD chart of test results but for the other test results you're expected to survey the test results and manually compare graphs and such.

 

[Grooved]

You're now just attacking some theoretical person who only looks at one measurement. ASR provides a host of measurements to check all important aspects of sound reproduction. Oh sure, there are other things that could be measured, but science tells us they likely don't matter. Amir even includes some of those measures for those who care. Anyway, you're just beating on a strawman.

I may not have been precise enough, but I was just repeating that you need to look at all numbers and not SINAD only, so I know that ASR is providing a lot of measurements and I don't understand your last part.
I'm not attacking anybody, I was answering to two specific points of a post that were looking like a generalization.

 

[beefkabob]

Multi tone fidelity with multiple simultaneous freq sweeps. And also first order differential phase changes with frequency. Perhaps with the support of a Matlab suite.

Andrew

Is anybody doing this test? What do you expect to find? Why not do them yourself across some DACs then see if you find a reason to keep doing them.
There's already a multitone and a sweep for noise+distortion across frequencies.

 

[MAB]

You're now just attacking some theoretical person who only looks at one measurement. ASR provides a host of measurements to check all important aspects of sound reproduction. Oh sure, there are other things that could be measured, but science tells us they likely don't matter. Amir even includes some of those measures for those who care. Anyway, you're just beating on a strawman.

Thank you @beefkabob.

@Grooved , this is exactly what I was saying earlier when you (and the person posting all of that unfortunate gibberish through Google translator) were trying to construct the same logical fallacy. Please, if you have a better set of tests or some innovation, please go do those tests and see if they lead to demonstrably better sound, or some new understanding of reproduction equipment, then post your data. Otherwise, this is just your attempt at a subtle version of "just listen to the music".

 

[morillon]

;-)
I imagine you have already done this...
but out of curiosity...
little question about the apx555b in num...

by looping via cable, the apx555b in output-input spdif or toslink...
what does this give in aes17 measurement on 1khz (44k like your use or 48k/24b)..enob sinad of it ( apx )?

some measurements at the same time as that of the toslink of the toppping?
;-)

mr amirm ...maybe these measures have already been presented??
;-)

are interesting to understand the factual floors of the apx in its measurements in the digital domain, digital sources etc that you often realize
;-)