Topping E30 DAC Review

[redshift]

Hahahahahaha! Now that you've said it I'm curious.

Since I bought an ES9038Q2M out of curiosity and its coaxial input doesn't work, I will test it with different power sources. It accepts multiple voltages so it should offer various test cases.

I already measured it with a cheap 9V power supply. I own the cheapest of the cheap 12V power supply intented for LED lighting use, could give it a use too.

Yeah, go from worst to the best. And take measurements.

Nobody remembers a coward. And being crazy is fun.

 

[ouimetnick]

yea unfortunately my iphone doesn't autoswitch the resolution or bitrate for the hi-res media on the E30 which is connected via USB dongle to the USB input on the E30.

What iPhone are you using? I have an iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPhone 6S Plus, and iPad Pro 10.5. All devices are running iOS 14.6. and my iTunes library has various songs. Some from CDs, some from HDtracks. My E30 shows the correct bitrate. I do have all files in AIFF instead of ALAC, but when I play a 24/96kHz or 24/192kHz, 24/48kHz, or 16/44.1kHz, the display correctly shows that.

I’m using this adapter

 

[_thelaughingman]

What iPhone are you using? I have an iPhone 11 Pro Max, iPhone 6S Plus, and iPad Pro 10.5. All devices are running iOS 14.6. and my iTunes library has various songs. Some from CDs, some from HDtracks. My E30 shows the correct bitrate. I do have all files in AIFF instead of ALAC, but when I play a 24/96kHz or 24/192kHz, 24/48kHz, or 16/44.1kHz, the display correctly shows that.

I’m using this adapter

I am using the same Adapter with an iPhone XR. It is now working after switching the power off and putting the dac in correct mode.

 

[Astrozombie]

Well this is odd, last few times I used it I got some random skipping after a few minutes (powering from a PC) maybe it was the Sony bluray player? IDK but I cycled the DAC and it seemed to go away.

 

[ouimetnick]

I am using the same Adapter with an iPhone XR. It is now working after switching the power off and putting the dac in correct mode.

It should work in either mode. My unit is in preamp mode, and when the sample rate changes say I’m listening to a 44.1 and then a 48kHz and perhaps a 96 or 192kHz song, the display switches to show that sample rate for 3 seconds or so before going back to the volume level (dB)

 

[ShinMolina]

Try powering one of your dev boards with a 12V battery (not a bench PSU) and signal through SPDIF and take measurements.

I’m curious to know if it makes any difference.

It would also be a basis for a “portable” device.

PUSH IT TO THE LIMIT!

I have the measurements! Managed to spare some free time for analysing the data from my ES9038Q2M board. I am attaching the most relevant ones.

I see the obvious difference in mains noise between the battery-powered and cheap power supply situations. Other than that the device seems to behave equally for both cases. No additional noise or jitter and the frequency response remains the same.

 

[redshift]

I have the measurements! Managed to spare some free time for analysing the data from my ES9038Q2M board. I am attaching the most relevant ones.

I see the obvious difference in mains noise between the battery-powered and cheap power supply situations. Other than that the device seems to behave equally for both cases. No additional noise or jitter and the frequency response remains the same.

If you still got the instrumentation going, could you try a step and impulse response between the good PS and battery?

Some lovely BW limited white and pink noise FR null testing would be interesting.

Could you do the null on the instrumentation as well and then subtract that as an (calibration) offset from the measurements. So that some shenanigans of the DAC/PS isn’t masked by the instrumentation noise?

 

[ShinMolina]

If you still got the instrumentation going, could you try a step and impulse response between the good PS and battery?

Some lovely BW limited white and pink noise FR null testing would be interesting.

Could you do the null on the instrumentation as well and then subtract that as an (calibration) offset from the measurements. So that some shenanigans of the DAC/PS isn’t masked by the instrumentation noise?

You are asking a lot and I don't think I have much experience outside the measurements I did.

Do you know of any software that could let me measure the impulse response or could I just use REW?

And about the white and pink noise, do you mean noise limited to 1 kHz for example?

I think I could do all those measurements but not today, I have run out of time for the day.

 

[Sharur]

(please don't take this too seriously )

 

[Jimbob54]

(please don't take this too seriously )

The drinks shelf is a nice touch.

 

[redshift]

You are asking a lot and I don't think I have much experience outside the measurements I did.

Do you know of any software that could let me measure the impulse response or could I just use REW?

And about the white and pink noise, do you mean noise limited to 1 kHz for example?

I think I could do all those measurements but not today, I have run out of time for the day.

Is it possible to create a small square “step” waveform in REW, where you change the width until the square wave looks similar to spikes, which then becomes “impulses”?

I’m thinking pink noise in the 10Hz to 21kHz. And measurements spanning from DC to 63kHz.

No rush, take your time. It’s just a curiosity of mine.

 

[Robin L]

The drinks shelf is a nice touch.

The "Blind Drunk" tests.

 

[Jimbob54]

The "Blind Drunk" tests.

Make mine a double!

 

[Robin L]

Make mine a double!

 

[ShinMolina]

Is it possible to create a small square “step” waveform in REW, where you change the width until the square wave looks similar to spikes, which then becomes “impulses”?

I’m thinking pink noise in the 10Hz to 21kHz. And measurements spanning from DC to 63kHz.

No rush, take your time. It’s just a curiosity of mine.

Took a little bit of my free time and ended up with this. I have measured the white and pink noise, the spectrum analyzer that I use only goes up to half the sample rate. Let me know if you have any measuring software in mind to extend the response measuring window.

I also measured the noise floor of the instrumentation (Scarlett Solo). It can go up to -121dB and has some elevated noise floor in the low frequency range, probably due to ground loops and/or dirty USB power.

Ended up measuring the step and impulse responses with Audacity and a set of compiled audio files. The results seem pretty similar, no major differences between the cheap power supply and batteries. Finally, ended up adding a multitone test to complete the session.

For a cheap generic DAC board the implementation seems to be well done. As @amirm would say: for 30$, I'm happy to recommend this generic ES9038Q2M DAC board.

 

[redshift]

Took a little bit of my free time and ended up with this. I have measured the white and pink noise, the spectrum analyzer that I use only goes up to half the sample rate. Let me know if you have any measuring software in mind to extend the response measuring window.

I also measured the noise floor of the instrumentation (Scarlett Solo). It can go up to -121dB and has some elevated noise floor in the low frequency range, probably due to ground loops and/or dirty USB power.

Ended up measuring the step and impulse responses with Audacity and a set of compiled audio files. The results seem pretty similar, no major differences between the cheap power supply and batteries. Finally, ended up adding a multitone test to complete the session.

For a cheap generic DAC board the implementation seems to be well done. As @amirm would say: for 30$, I'm happy to recommend this generic ES9038Q2M DAC board.

Daym that ringing in the time domain though.

Critically dampened anyone? Bessel filters, no? Why brick wall and then send the crap down the audio pipeline to begin with? It might be inaudible, but just why?

Here’s how the impulse response should look like in the time domain.

For the step response:

 

[ShinMolina]

Daym that ringing in the time domain though.

I know, the ringing took my by surprise. The DAC has multiple filter configurations. I used the default one which is "fast roll-off minimum".

I will measure the other filter's step and impulse responses, but only using the power supply since the results are very similar.

 

[redshift]

I know, the ringing took my by surprise. The DAC has multiple filter configurations. I used the default one which is "fast roll-off minimum".

I will measure the other filter's step and impulse responses, but only using the power supply since the results are very similar.

Yes, that was a bit excessive. As in; let’s slap on plenty of (IIR) feedback ringing like mad to avoid some noise in the upper bands.

If the noise shaping is good (fast) enough, the noise could be taken care of with a simple Bessel filter I suppose and avoid the ringing from obsessing over SnR.

 

[ShinMolina]

Yes, that was a bit excessive. As in; let’s slap on plenty of (IIR) feedback ringing like mad to avoid some noise in the upper bands.

If the noise shaping is good (fast) enough, the noise could be taken care of with a simple Bessel filter I suppose and avoid the ringing from obsessing over SnR.

Here you have the filter measurements for the ES9038Q2M generic board and the DX3 Pro, which should be pretty similar to the E30 since both use the AK4493EQ.

I don't know very much about impulse and step response, but I see that the filters on the ES9038Q2M are more aggressive than on the AK4493EQ. The latter has some filter options that cause less ringing.

 

[redshift]

Here you have the filter measurements for the ES9038Q2M generic board and the DX3 Pro, which should be pretty similar to the E30 since both use the AK4493EQ.

I don't know very much about impulse and step response, but I see that the filters on the ES9038Q2M are more aggressive than on the AK4493EQ. The latter has some filter options that cause less ringing.

That is the drawback of the usual delta sigmas in audio DAC’s. Plenty of ringing from the filters.

Try ‘em out unfettered if you can accept the ~ -3dB at 20kHz and like the sound (assuming you got good cans and/or near field monitors).

As for the mirroring in the (ultrasonic) higher bands and aliasing. There is only one way of knowing. Slap it in “NOS/unfettered” mode and listen; can you hear it?

Some dithering never hurt any electromechanical device, stiction, friction and all that. If the input stages of your amped speakers got some LP/bandpass filtering (Bessel/optimally dampened) hopefully going on, you won’t notice the mirrored HF/ultrasonic bands anyway. And for switcheroo class D amps, give me a break. On top of that the inertia/impedance of xovers/drivers...

Check out the “steps” in the triangle waveform from the ADI RME 2 FS running in NOS/unfettered mode. That’s what the actual digital signal looks like. What an output filter does is “smoothen” this out and add ringing.

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/rme-adi-2-dac-fs-nos.php#gsc.tab=0

Now imagine 16 bits/65,536 voltage steps when you crank the DAC to 0dB (full volume). Do you think those “steps” can be heard? After all, they arrive at 44.1kHz as the output voltage changes with the digitized music signal (assuming 16bit/44.1kHz)

If you’re running 24bit 192kHz+ hires songs. The default should be unfettered mode.
IMO.