Topping E30 DAC Review

[kouki_monster]

If you want to do it the right way you need a 4 channel DAC so you can apply low-pass filtering and FR and phase EQ for subs and high-pass filtering and FR and phase EQ for mains.

But none of those are the jobs of a DAC, no? Why not just get an audio receiver?

 

[kouki_monster]

I'm on the fence as to whether I really need another DAC...anyway, here is what Apos had to say regarding the supply chain and delivery date as of March 22:

https://apos.audio/blogs/news/apos-audio-covid-19-coronavirus-update-march-16-2020


We are shipping out of our Shenzhen Fulfillment Center as our Oakland facility needs to be closed in compliance with the California Shelter-in-Place order.

Regardless of the location of the fulfillment center, free shipping is always available, and we are just as committed to our shipping estimate.

It’s tricky time for everyone. Thank you for your support and stay safe and healthy!

Could it be safer to have things shipped to you from China than the US right now?

 

[QMuse]

But none of those are the jobs of a DAC, no? Why not just get an audio receiver?

Surpiring as it may seem, but If you do 4 channel filtering in a convolution engine (left main + sub and right main +sub) you need 4 channel DAC to convert signal to analog before sending it to amps and speakers.

AV receivers have multichannel DACs but can only receive 2 channel stereo or multichannel home cinema formats, they cannot receive 2 x stereo.

 

[sejarzo]

But none of those are the jobs of a DAC, no? Why not just get an audio receiver?

Because the capability and flexibility of the DSP in many of those isn't very good.

 

[kouki_monster]

When using a DAC direct to power amp I've thought of using a stepped attenuator along with digital volume in the DAC, as a precaution, so I don't get any surprises that blow my speakers.

Does the term "power amp" mean that there is no built-in attenuator?

 

[Illtrick]

Does the term "power amp" mean that there is no built-in attenuator?

Yep. They have just one job - amplify the signal to speaker level. Sometimes amps have gain settings as well but not in my case.

 

[kouki_monster]

Surpiring as it may seem, but If you do 4 channel filtering in a convolution engine (left main + sub and right main +sub) you need 4 channel DAC to convert signal to analog before sending it to amps and speakers.

AV receivers have multichannel DACs but can only receive 2 channel stereo or multichannel home cinema formats, they cannot receive 2 x stereo.

Because the capability and flexibility of the DSP in many of those isn't very good.

Forgive me. I'm still relatively new to this compared to many of you guys. I was suggesting using a 2 channel DAC to feed a preamp/splitter (the "receiver"). Then from there feed your amp for your mains and your amps for your subs, which typically have their own crossovers built in, no? I suppose balancing through REW (again I'm probably butchering some of this lol), etc. at that point could be difficult, but that's the entire point of using do-it-all receivers, right?.. simplicities-sake at the expense of perhaps perfection (depending on cost). Wouldn't DSP be done by whatever feeds the DAC? It's all analogue after that..

And why do you need 2x Stereo in order to have two subs?

Eh, I'll have to google some. Moving on...

 

[QMuse]

Because the capability and flexibility of the DSP in many of those isn't very good.

They actually lack necessary inputs, which is expected as their DACs were never intended to be used in implmenting digital XO scenario for stereo music reproduction.

 

[sejarzo]

So it's clear, amps generally do not have variable gain. They have a fixed gain and use input attenuators to limit the output.

 

[QMuse]

Forgive me. I'm still relatively new to this compared to many of you guys. I was suggesting using a 2 channel DAC to feed a preamp/splitter (the "receiver"). Then from there feed your amp for your mains and your amps for your subs, which typically have their own crossovers built in, no? I suppose balancing through REW (again I'm probably butchering some of this lol), etc. at that point could be difficult, but that's the entire point of using do-it-all receivers, right?.. simplicities-sake at the expense of perhaps perfection (depending on cost). Wouldn't DSP be done by whatever feeds the DAC? It's all analogue after that..

And why do you need 2x Stereo in order to have two subs?

Eh, I'll have to google some. Moving on...

2 channels for mains to accomodate high pass filtering and room EQ + 2 channels for subs to implement low pass filtering and room EQ.

 

[sejarzo]

...And why do you need 2x Stereo in order to have two subs?

Because the response of the subs in different locations requires different equalization. One stereo DAC feeding the mains, a second feeding the subs.

 

[infinitesymphony]

When using a DAC direct to power amp I've thought of using a stepped attenuator along with digital volume in the DAC, as a precaution, so I don't get any surprises that blow my speakers.

Don't some DACs have a digital trim that allows you to set the max level lower than 0 dBFS? Might be a nice feature to incorporate for security.

Or you could use a power amp's or active speaker's input gain trims to limit max volume later in the chain.

 

[sejarzo]

They actually lack necessary inputs, which is expected as their DACs were never intended to be used in implmenting digital XO scenario for stereo music reproduction.

I have an older 7.1 Onkyo, but every current Onkyo AVR on their site is "x.2". I would assume that, because "stereo" mode in mine runs 2.1 using Audyssey room correction and crossover setting for the sub, that the newer receivers run in 2.2.

 

[QMuse]

Don't some DACs have a digital trim that allows you to set the max level lower than 0 dBFS? Might be a nice feature to incorporate for security.

Or you could use a power amp's or active speaker's input gain trims to limit max volume later in the chain.

Digital volume control in DAC won't fail. It is controled by playout app and that one may fail.

 

[QMuse]

I have an older 7.1 Onkyo, but every current Onkyo AVR on their site is "x.2". I would assume that, because "stereo" mode in mine runs 2.1 using Audyssey room correction and crossover setting for the sub, that the newer receivers run in 2.2.

That may be the case. Assuming you set your main speakers to "small" it may as well activate high pass on them.

 

[Illtrick]

Don't some DACs have a digital trim that allows you to set the max level lower than 0 dBFS? Might be a nice feature to incorporate for security.

Or you could use a power amp's or active speaker's input gain trims to limit max volume later in the chain.

Might be true for some gear. I've got a Linn Klout which has no method of input trim externally. The Topping D30 (first considered dac) doesn't have any trim that I'm aware of. This is all a big experiment for me so we'll see how it goes.

 

[sejarzo]

That may be the case. Assuming you set your main speakers to "small" it may as well activate high pass on them.

Yeah, that is exactly how it works. You must complete the speaker configuration first before you run the room correction, plus select the crossover point for the subs (at least in both Onkyo AVRs I have owned.)

 

[kouki_monster]

They actually lack necessary inputs, which is expected as their DACs were never intended to be used in implmenting digital XO scenario for stereo music reproduction.

If they weren't, I'd say that they should be judging by today's trends...

We are a minority, but there are many of us out there that are interested in 2 channel music listening. Perhaps not from an AVR, but from an audio receiver. I assume that capable products are there from the likes of Emotiva, etc.. probably at around $1000 for a do-it-all solution (switch, DSP, DAC, EQ, room EQ, codec processor, 2 ch. amp, preamp for subs, etc.), but as I do not yet have the means for such a dedicated system, I've not looked much into it.

I currently use a harman kardon AVR for my main music listening setup that must also double-duty as our home theater / gaming room and quite enjoy it. It only has capability for one sub-woofer, but I am sure that there are AVR's today that offer two sub-woofer capability, and I would bet that they use Audessy, etc. for appropriate in-room EQ. Do you guys feel that the DACs, etc. built in to those receivers are inferior? To this day the one component I've seen "taken out" of the do-it-all setup the most is the amp, as they seem to have the largest effect on the sound output in the end.

Anyway, my biggest feeling here is that two subs just isn't needed for music anyway, not that it matters... but I guess if you just wanted to be in a really big room...

Sorry guys, getting the thread a bit off-topic here...

 

[mslim]

The E30 is out.
Wonder how far away the L30 is and specs around it. I hope the L30 will have a pre-out/line out to drive my desktop speakers as well as headphone amp. Doubt there will be an output selector at this price but looking forward to this stack as it fits my price range and form factor.

 

[Jarrett]

I ordered one tonight from Amazon.ca