TOPPING DX9！

[Tonton_ZEeD]

The RME (and others) output level is powerful enough to drive any well designed headphone with ease, that's a fact, not an opinion or a matter of taste.
I consider the race to more and more powerful head amps as irrelevant, and it can be dangerous for hearing if people crank up the volume too high too long.

So, objectively, adding a Topping A70 or any other super powerful head amp from any brand to a RME (or comparable brand) is useless.

It's a tread about the DX9, not the RME. This 2 devices are not comparable, maybe from a price point but that's the only point. Read yourself and read the definition of objective and subjective, please.

 

[Tovarich007]

I read carefully this thread, and others, but I'm not talking about esoteric or "crazy stuff". Esoterism and "crazy stuff" is the grave of rational and good audio technology.

Quite frankly, why be interested in buying a headphone like this with such a low sensitivity, made by an unknown company which will probably stay long under the radar, if by chance it will economically survive ?

There are plenty of very capable headphones with reasonable sensitivity out there, at any prices, made by plenty of very capable and well established, old or young, audio companies. You don't need fancy amps to drive them well.

I don't mean that Topping, SMSL or others are fancy, they make very good products indeed (I own an older Topping myself at present), but they're surfing on the trend of ultra good theorical performances, way above the audibility threshold, while the products ergonomy, the services and the reliability seem more and more questionable, because they flood the market with too many products. How maintain a good quality control with so many references ?

 

[Tonton_ZEeD]

I read carefully this thread, and others, but I'm not talking about esoteric or "crazy stuff". Esoterism and "crazy stuff" is the grave of rational and good audio technology.

Quite frankly, why be interested in buying a headphone like this with such a low sensitivity, made by an unknown company which will probably stay long under the radar, if by chance it will economically survive ?

There are plenty of very capable headphones with reasonable sensitivity out there, at any prices, made by plenty of very capable and well established, old or young, audio companies. You don't need fancy amps to drive them well.

I don't mean that Topping, SMSL or others are fancy, they make very good products indeed (I own an older Topping myself at present), but they're surfing on the trend of ultra good theorical performances, way above the audibility threshold, while the products ergonomy, the services and the reliability seem more and more questionable, because they flood the market with too many products. How maintain a good quality control with so many references ?

Why buying a Koenigsegg Regera instead of a Toyota Camry ?

 

[Sokel]

I read carefully this thread, and others, but I'm not talking about esoteric or "crazy stuff". Esoterism and "crazy stuff" is the grave of rational and good audio technology.

Quite frankly, why be interested in buying a headphone like this with such a low sensitivity, made by an unknown company which will probably stay long under the radar, if by chance it will economically survive ?

There are plenty of very capable headphones with reasonable sensitivity out there, at any prices, made by plenty of very capable and well established, old or young, audio companies. You don't need fancy amps to drive them well.

I don't mean that Topping, SMSL or others are fancy, they make very good products indeed (I own an older Topping myself at present), but they're surfing on the trend of ultra good theorical performances, way above the audibility threshold, while the products ergonomy, the services and the reliability seem more and more questionable, because they flood the market with too many products. How maintain a good quality control with so many references ?

Yes,but we're not here to dictate what people will buy and like,instead we're trying to see what works in every occasion.

For me good quality and reliable,proven overall record is the first choice on one hand,but on the other both my ancient (really ancient) ATH-M2 and my new LCD-X can be driven even by my phone (ok,the ATHs' not so much but you get the point).

Other friends with demanding ones look for real speaker power amps.
I depends really.

 

[Tovarich007]

I don't dictate anything to anyone, but a member of this forum suggested me to add a Topping A70 pro to a RME (not knowing proably that I own in fact an old Topping much modest than the A70 pro or the DX9). I replied why I think this suggestion would be useless and why I consider that some trends on the hifi market are obviously not good ones.

It's not a dictate, but a useful task to advice people to "remettre l'eglise au centre du village" as we use to say in french. This old expression that is litteraly translated in english by " to put back the church in the center of the village" means that it is necessary to put priorities on what's the most important in given circumstances and keep it in mind.
Applied to audio and sound, it means that we should better focus on what matters most and avoid useless expenses, and thus further disappointment and frustation.

 

[BrooklynNick]

I don't dictate anything to anyone, but a member of this forum suggested me to add a Topping A70 pro to a RME (not knowing proably that I own in fact an old Topping much modest than the A70 pro or the DX9). I replied why I think this suggestion would be useless and why I consider that some trends on the hifi market are obviously not good ones.

It's not a dictate, but a useful task to advice people to "remettre l'eglise au centre du village" as we use to say in french. This old expression that is litteraly translated in english by " to put back the church in the center of the village" means that it is necessary to put priorities on what's the most important in given circumstances and keep it in mind.
Applied to audio and sound, it means that we should better focus on what matters most and avoid useless expenses, and thus further disappointment and frustation.

I guess we are different religions then. Besides sound quality, I care about aesthetics, user interface, power output, i/o options, etc more than price (to a point, of course). I do agree that sound quality is of primary importance, but only if the device has enough power and the right features for *my* use case.

 

[xaviescacs]

No matter what they do, the remote always looks cheap, generic and badly executed.

 

[Tovarich007]

Cheap not at all, the aluminium case is fine and classy.
But generic yes, all these chinese brands (Topping, SMSL, Sabaj and co.) use the same type of remote whose ergonomy is relatively poor. Ergonomy of the main device as well.

Once you get used to it, it's ok, but they should improve this urgently. It is important for users.

 

[Bewateraudio]

On the 1111 sale, I ordered the A70 pro. I don't have a super nice DAC and if I get something like D70 pro, it would be almost same price as DX9. Should I just go for DX9?

 

[AzReciOn]

On the 1111 sale, I ordered the A70 pro. I don't have a super nice DAC and if I get something like D70 pro, it would be almost same price as DX9. Should I just go for DX9?

We haven't seen test measurements yet, besides, this is a completely new device, with which anything is possible in the first batch. But, if this is not taken into account, then yes - hypothetically it is an excellent 2-in-1.

 

[Human Bass]

No, just get a SMSL D-6s to pair with the A70.

On the 1111 sale, I ordered the A70 pro. I don't have a super nice DAC and if I get something like D70 pro, it would be almost same price as DX9. Should I just go for DX9?

 

[delamelon]

can't wait for Amir's review!

it's especially the preamp part that interests me to (why not) replace my Pre90 which doesn't have sexy vu-meters...

 

[AzReciOn]

Yes, I am also really looking forward to the DX9 test from Amirm.
In the meantime, you can read (and watch) a fresh review-comparison from Soundnews.

 

[nonnyno]

I low-balled it.

Stand by the second sentence though. Regardless of performance, no DSP and no streaming at this price make it a no no for any sane buyer.

I disagree. Define sanity when it comes to the value we put on things. I have a very early model Rolex GMT master. It was my fathers. Its worth quite a lot to a collector. I wont sell it because it reminds me of my father (crazy right - I've been offered more than 20K for it). He bought it during a revolution to give the watch seller something because if he was caught with it he would have been killed. My father got it for a song (it is genuine). Its a lousy timekeeper as its old. My Apple watch does a far better job of its fundamental job for a lot cheaper and less hassle. The Rolex is a lovely old thing and has priceless memories attached - It's a lovely old thing. I wouldn't buy a Rolex or any luxury watch even though I have the money.

We all have different valuation criteria. I like the looks of the DX9 (I would have liked it more had the sides been square more like the a70pro) but frankly the price doesn't seem that much to me. I have both SMSL and Topping gear and not one has been problematic so I have no reason to believe the DX9 would be unreliable. Before springing for it I'll wait for Amir to review it. It'll have to demonstrate some space between it and the DX7 pro measurement wise (I don't really care If I cant hear the differences but I 'm, not spending money to get something that doesn't measure as well). I will be moving from an e50/L50 setup which is excellent to a one box solution which will declutter my desk. For me its worth it. I wouldn't be prepared to spend £2,000 but at £1,300 yeah why not. By the time I've sold other stuff I'll probably be dropping no more than 400 or 500 pounds.

 

[digicidal]

On the one hand I do understand the "value" arguments (against) but on the other... how many DACs even in this market cost more than $1300 yet deliver less. Sure you can argue features or (maybe) brand cache for Matrix Audio... but then again - now you're talking 2-3 times as much for the flagship offerings. I'm assuming some people have spent more than that on the headphones they have (likely more than one pair) so is it really all that expensive?

Honestly, I can understand the comparison to something like an RME (but then my DX7 Pro is still running strong so I'm probably not upgrading to anything at the moment). Since I've got a PC front end... DSP/Dirac, streaming, etc. is already handled without hardware anyway. If I decided I wanted some "bling" - I'd definitely look at this before an X-Sabre 3... as the "economic" alternative.

 

[Passion4Sound]

Its exciting times, the Eversolo DMP-A8 and the Topping DX9. Like many said, waiting patiently when Amir check them out. Very curious how they compare sound wise.
Then the DMP-A8 has I2S, so use the A8 as an extern Streamer together with the DX9 (if it turns out that de DX9 is the better DAC). btw The first company that brings a AKM (pre) streamer (with Apple Music lossless) to the market with room-correction would be for me a great step forward.

 

[AzReciOn]

Then the DMP-A8 has I2S, so use the A8 as an extern Streamer together with the DX9 (if it turns out that de DX9 is the better DAC).

It is absolutely impractical to give so much money for a DAC and an analog preamp in the DMP-A8 (and in it it takes up a third of the device, not counting the power supply) and not use them.
For these purposes, a completely new Eversolo is needed - without an analog section at all, but with an abundance of digital outputs, including I2S.

In the review from Soundnews, the man compares in detail directly DMP-A8 and DX9 (and yes, DX9, according to him, sounds much more interesting).

 

[digicidal]

It is absolutely impractical to give so much money for a DAC and an analog preamp in the DMP-A8 (and in it it takes up a third of the device, not counting the power supply) and not use them.
For these purposes, a completely new Eversolo is needed - without an analog section at all, but with an abundance of digital outputs, including I2S.

In the review from Soundnews, the man compares in detail directly DMP-A8 and DX9 (and yes, DX9, according to him, sounds much more interesting).

Agreed. Unless they've completely messed up the DMP-A8 somehow, it's reasonable to assume similar or greater performance to the DMP-A6 in which case there would be no reason to ever purchase both devices (certainly not for a single system/location).

Flowery prose of "reviewers" aside... they should both be provably transparent to a far greater extent than is audible to humans... so neither should sound more (or less) "interesting" than the source material they're given. If you need streaming and don't want a PC front end (and prefer to buy the DX9) - then any cheap streamer (WiiM mini or similar) with a digital output should provide all the "missing" features for under $150.

 

[nonnyno]

On the one hand I do understand the "value" arguments (against) but on the other... how many DACs even in this market cost more than $1300 yet deliver less. Sure you can argue features or (maybe) brand cache for Matrix Audio... but then again - now you're talking 2-3 times as much for the flagship offerings. I'm assuming some people have spent more than that on the headphones they have (likely more than one pair) so is it really all that expensive?

Honestly, I can understand the comparison to something like an RME (but then my DX7 Pro is still running strong so I'm probably not upgrading to anything at the moment). Since I've got a PC front end... DSP/Dirac, streaming, etc. is already handled without hardware anyway. If I decided I wanted some "bling" - I'd definitely look at this before an X-Sabre 3... as the "economic" alternative.

Absolutely agreed. To me the value proposition on is things as a certain fuzziness to it. If I just wanted the good enough (e.g. what I can hear which btw is a perfectly reasonable criteria for choice) then I’d buy the cheapest dac that get me into the fully transparent range with the cheapest amp with the power requirements I need and have done with it and end my journey. I’m fortunate enough to be able to consider other criteria and indulge myself a bit And allow other aspects of the item to impact my decision. There are limits if someone comes out with a dac at 100000 which is essentially a topping e50 covered in bling I’m going to laugh in their general direction. If it had a natty little display and a nice case I might pay a bit more for it but there are limits. I’ve just bought the seen hd820 at 1399. At 1499 I’d have possibly still bitten. At 1799 they weren’t worth it to me. I’m loving them. To others they might be and to those people I say go forth and enjoy ecstatically! . I’m prepared to pay nothing for brand but I will pay for reliability. I will pay for extra facilities. I will pay for improved sound quality even venturing into the inaudible to a point

 

[nonnyno]

such a shame its so wide. From that perspective the d70pro a70pro combo is probably better but I wanted a one box solution.