Topping DX1 mini desktop DAC & AMP

[OlolOshnik]

Good evening!
Yesterday I became the happy(?) owner of Topping DX1. Before this, I had been using the Audinst HUD-DX1 for many years, but I wanted something new and inexpensive on a chip from AK. Headphones Sennheiser HD660s (150 ohm).
The first impression of the headphone output: it sounds cleaner, without grain, somehow smooth, or something, there are more low frequencies and lower mids, but the stage is very narrowed! If Audinst had a relatively wide corridor, then Topping had an average room...

 

[ppataki]

This tiny thing has a direct DSD mode, then?

The RCA output is fixed (no volume control) so I guess AKM's DSD Direct mode is engaged there, isn't it?

I am thinking about having this little DAC too but would be nice to know the above for sure

 

[datobe]

Is DX1 still best option for this price as desktop DAC/AMP? I can get used one for 50 usd from China.

 

[Bleib]

Is DX1 still best option for this price as desktop DAC/AMP? I can get used one for 50 usd from China.

Sounds like a great bargain. I have no personal experience with this but I'd buy it.

 

[datobe]

Sounds like a great bargain. I have no personal experience with this but I'd buy it.

I've read here that some people complain about narrow soundstage, having 400se with also narrow soundstage I would prefer something with better soundstage I guess. As I often watch movies with this headphone. Guys You know some better alternatives in this price range 100 ish dollars?

 

[Berwhale]

I've read that some people complain about narrow soundstage, having 400se with also narrow soundstage I would prefer something with better soundstage I guess. As I often watch movies with this headphone. Guys You know some better alternatives in this price range 100 ish dollars?

If a DAC has an effect on 'soundstage' then I would regard it as broken... How something is recorded can affect soundstage (number/type of mics, placements, etc.), the transducers (i.e. speakers, headphones, etc,) and their placement can affect soundstage and possibly the amplifiers that drive the transducers can affect soundstage (by impacting the transducers performance). A DAC, which is simply converting a digital representation of a waveform into an analogue waveform should not have any impact on soundstage.

 

[Bleib]

I've read here that some people complain about narrow soundstage, having 400se with also narrow soundstage I would prefer something with better soundstage I guess. As I often watch movies with this headphone. Guys You know some better alternatives in this price range 100 ish dollars?

To me this sounds like a headphone / recording problem rather than the electronics. I've had he400se, I have a difficulty in believing that it could sound narrow..

 

[datobe]

I think more detailed sound can feel more open and some DACs are definitely more detailed than others. When I compare Creative X-FI HD or my phone dac to Fiio ka13, Fiio definitely sounds more detailed and open, so to say. due to more detail.

I ordered DX1. Fingers crossed.

 

[OlolOshnik]

I measured the headphone outputs of two of my DACs: Audinst hud-dx1 v2 and Topping dx1 using the line input of Reltek alk887 (horror, but there is no other one) (and only for comparison with each other, without any absolute meaning).
Interpenetration of channels in Audinst showed -70dB, Topping showed -62dB, without load(on 1khz).
From 60hz to 1,3khz about 6-8db, from 3khz to 5khz about 5-7db, from 6khz to 20khz about 3-4db.
Consequently, the interpenetration of filaments at the headphone output of Topping is worse than that of Audinst (measurements of which can be found on RAA) by 8 dB, without load (I don’t know how things are with different loads).
To the ear, the scene actually seems to be narrower. Just above I compared the Topping stage to a cramped room, while Audinst feels like a medium-sized hallway.

 

[Berwhale]

I think more detailed sound can feel more open and some DACs are definitely more detailed than others

There's a thread about that... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-as-transparent-are-that-many-confused.9245/

 

[Blorg]

@datobe Fiio KA13 (550mW @32Ω) already has more power than the Topping DX1 has (~250mW @32Ω, ~300mW @16Ω). Some feel soundstage is impacted from a lack of power. If you already have the KA13 I don't see the point of your buying this. For me, for a moderate listening level, I do think this would be OK with the HE400SE but it's actually a quite hard to drive headphone (91dB/mW spec and measurements suggest it's even lower) and you're going backwards power-wise when it sounds like you might want to be considering a desktop amp.

If you want to improve soundstage on the HE400SE, certainly if it's the Chinese (non-stealth magnet) version, take the grills off the cups. That significantly increases soundstage. You can replace with something less obstructive if you like it, to still keep it protected. It's very easy just to take the grills off temporarily to see if you like what it does to the sound though.

 

[datobe]

@datobe Fiio KA13 (550mW @32Ω) already has more power than the Topping DX1 has (~250mW @32Ω, ~300mW @16Ω). Some feel soundstage is impacted from a lack of power. If you already have the KA13 I don't see the point of your buying this. For me, for a moderate listening level, I do think this would be OK with the HE400SE but it's actually a quite hard to drive headphone (91dB/mW spec and measurements suggest it's even lower) and you're going backwards power-wise when it sounds like you might want to be considering a desktop amp.

If you want to improve soundstage on the HE400SE, certainly if it's the Chinese (non-stealth magnet) version, take the grills off the cups. That significantly increases soundstage. You can replace with something less obstructive if you like it, to still keep it protected. It's very easy just to take the grills off temporarily to see if you like what it does to the sound though.

Yes, I want to use KA13 when I am outside and DX1 as headphone amp for my computer. It's Chinese stealth version. I will definitely try to mod grills, thanks.


edit: I just tried with removed grills and it definitely makes difference. I will try to find decent replacement for stock grills.

 

[datobe]

Fiio KA13 (550mW @32Ω) already has more power than the Topping DX1 has (~250mW @32Ω, ~300mW @16Ω).

I don't understand one thing. KA13 has output power 550mW @32Ω but on balanced right? So if I don't use balanced output, - L+R≥170mW+170mW (32Ω PO/THD+N＜1%) - this is what matters to me?

 

[staticV3]

I don't understand one thing. KA13 has output power 550mW @32Ω but on balanced right? So if I don't use balanced output, - L+R≥170mW+170mW (32Ω PO/THD+N＜1%) - this is what matters to me?

That is what matters to you if you use 32Ω headphones and want to keep THD+N below 1%.

 

[Jimster480]

I think more detailed sound can feel more open and some DACs are definitely more detailed than others. When I compare Creative X-FI HD or my phone dac to Fiio ka13, Fiio definitely sounds more detailed and open, so to say. due to more detail.

I ordered DX1. Fingers crossed.

This is because sound cards and their amplifiers are often woefully bad. Even some of the best sound cards had really poor amplifiers. My FiiO K1 sounded better than any sound card I ever had.

 

[TedBaker]

Bought this - plugged it in - it works. Wanted to avoid the noise from my headphone socket on my brand new PC and didn't need EQ as I use Peace GUI. Really neat little device and plenty of volume.

 

[mc.god]

I think more detailed sound can feel more open and some DACs are definitely more detailed than others. When I compare Creative X-FI HD or my phone dac to Fiio ka13, Fiio definitely sounds more detailed and open, so to say. due to more detail.

Assuming KA13 good measurements on par with other non flawed CS43131 implementations I'm not surprised you hear improvements seeing the headphone output performances of the X-Fi HD https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nd-measurements-of-soundblaster-x-fi-hd.6367/

 

[Jimster480]

Assuming KA13 good measurements on par with other non flawed CS43131 implementations I'm not surprised you hear improvements seeing the headphone output performances of the X-Fi HD https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nd-measurements-of-soundblaster-x-fi-hd.6367/

From the FiiO Site for Single ended.

KA13_parameters

KA13_parameters

www.fiio.com

All the graphs are there.

 

[LongKick64]

Hi! Funnily enough I'm having the same problem on a Lenovo Legion 5 Pro. Although it doesn't disconnect completely, but turns down the volume and starts to sound distorted.

I think we have a problem in the chip that converts the voltage from the USB port. Because I have tried with different cables, I even bought new ones. And the problem does not take long to appear.

What do you mean by sound distortion?

 

[OlolOshnik]

Good evening!
Does anyone know (or guess) how high gain is implemented?
Is it possible that at high gain the headphone amplifier receives more voltage than at low gain?
Not far from the USB input there is a 25V capacitor, and somewhere between the DAC and the headphone amplifier there are two 16V capacitors. It would be strange to install capacitors with such a margin when powering a headphone amplifier at +/- 5V; 10V would be enough.
Because if the headphone amplifier receives a higher supply voltage at high gain, some of its parameters may improve than at low gain.
No one has made comparative measurements of low and high gain for headphones, but it would be very interesting!