Topping DX1 mini desktop DAC & AMP

[Cifer]

I have some issues with this device: Recently I bought the Topping DX1 for listening to audio as well as a Focusrite Scarlett Solo for digital Piano playing.

I expected that the DX1 would sound noticeably better especially because of the amp, and it does feel like it's a bit more detailed. But it does sound extremely sharp and a bit empty around the low end. The Scarlett doesn't have this effect at all. Maybe this is also why the DX1 one feels more detailed.

Even at much higher volumes the Scarlett doesn't cause me pain, while the Topping does even when very quiet. Lowering the mid range and high frequencies with an EQ seems to make no difference in that regard. It's just a quality the sound of the Topping has, no matter the EQ settings, while the Scarlett sounds rather pleasant with any EQ setting. The quality of the recording of the music also doesn't matter as the issue is the same with rough metal music as much as great soft classical recordings.

This is definitely not something related to psychoacoustics because my ears actually start to hurt, and I'm getting fatigue with the DX1 almost instantly, and adjusting the mids and highs in my EQ doesn't help either.

Is there a scientific explanation for this? Something you can see in the measurements?

My only idea is that the Topping might be more transparent than the Scarlett, and therefore, and doesn't dull the sound as much. However, it confuses me that EQing doesn't solve the issue.

I don't believe my unit is faulty since everything is clean and I can hear all the instruments properly which should be there. It just sounds somewhat unnaturally bright and sharp.

 

[akbetter01]

If you think this is sharp.. wait to hear the DX3 Pro+. I had both and the DX3 is like a knife in the ears.. Now this DX1 is better and warm. Maybe my DX3 was faulty and this DX1 is good? Who knows

 

[spigot]

I have some issues with this device: Recently I bought the Topping DX1 for listening to audio as well as a Focusrite Scarlett Solo for digital Piano playing.

I expected that the DX1 would sound noticeably better especially because of the amp, and it does feel like it's a bit more detailed. But it does sound extremely sharp and a bit empty around the low end. The Scarlett doesn't have this effect at all. Maybe this is also why the DX1 one feels more detailed.

Even at much higher volumes the Scarlett doesn't cause me pain, while the Topping does even when very quiet. Lowering the mid range and high frequencies with an EQ seems to make no difference in that regard. It's just a quality the sound of the Topping has, no matter the EQ settings, while the Scarlett sounds rather pleasant with any EQ setting. The quality of the recording of the music also doesn't matter as the issue is the same with rough metal music as much as great soft classical recordings.

This is definitely not something related to psychoacoustics because my ears actually start to hurt, and I'm getting fatigue with the DX1 almost instantly, and adjusting the mids and highs in my EQ doesn't help either.

Is there a scientific explanation for this? Something you can see in the measurements?

My only idea is that the Topping might be more transparent than the Scarlett, and therefore, and doesn't dull the sound as much. However, it confuses me that EQing doesn't solve the issue.

I don't believe my unit is faulty since everything is clean and I can hear all the instruments properly which should be there. It just sounds somewhat unnaturally bright and sharp.

It could be that the Scarlett has a higher output impedance, this can effect the frequency response of some headphones and fatten the bass or make it sound muffled. I know when I first listened to a headphone amp with low output impedance (<1 ohm) it sounded very 'thin' compared to something with >10 ohms when I initially switched over. I've seen reference to 10 Ohms with some Focusrites, don't know about your particular model.

 

[Cifer]

It could be that the Scarlett has a higher output impedance, this can effect the frequency response of some headphones and fatten the bass or make it sound muffled. I know when I first listened to a headphone amp with low output impedance (<1 ohm) it sounded very 'thin' compared to something with >10 ohms when I initially switched over. I've seen reference to 10 Ohms with some Focusrites, don't know about your particular model.

It's the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd generation, which has an output impedance of less than 12 Ohms while the Topping has 22 Ohms unless I'm wrong. Nothing is fattened or muffled, it's more that everything sounds right while the DX1 makes everything sound off.

With the Focusrite the instruments sound as they should, which I know because I compared a dozen songs to the sound from Kali LP-8 speakers and play (electric) guitar and piano myself. With the Topping the lower electric guitar notes sound way sharper than normal, and wind instruments and violins too.

I don't quite understand this as I thought that the DX1 measured very well and should therefore produce accurate sound. To my knowledge only badly measuring DACs and amps should noticeably change the sound or feeling of instruments. That's why I'm wondering what the technical explanation for what I'm experiencing is.

 

[staticV3]

It's the Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd generation, which has an output impedance of less than 12 Ohms while the Topping has 22 Ohms unless I'm wrong.

The DX1's RCA line out has 22Ω output impedance.
The 3.5mm and 1/4" headphone out have 0.6Ω output impedance:

Source

 

[Cifer]

The DX1's RCA line out has 22Ω output impedance.
The 3.5mm and 1/4" headphone out have 0.6Ω output impedance:
View attachment 249903
Source

Oh right, was half asleep and posted random measurements. The Scarlett Solo has "<1 Ohm", so not sure if it has more or less than the Topping.
Either way I don't feel like a difference of less than 1 Ohm in output impedance can explain why the Topping hurts my ears so much.

I would really like to understand what is the reason for this so I can see it in the measurements of other gear in the future and avoid it. It must be the amp, right? The DACs shouldn't sound that different since they're both transparent enough.

 

[xavx]

Oh right, was half asleep and posted random measurements. The Scarlett Solo has "<1 Ohm", so not sure if it has more or less than the Topping.
Either way I don't feel like a difference of less than 1 Ohm in output impedance can explain why the Topping hurts my ears so much.

I would really like to understand what is the reason for this so I can see it in the measurements of other gear in the future and avoid it. It must be the amp, right? The DACs shouldn't sound that different since they're both transparent enough.

Interested to see you getting to the bottom of this. Could the DX1 be "too good to be true to musicality" ? From https://focusrite.com/en/audio-interface/scarlett/scarlett-solo , the Scarlett has 430 ohm line out impedance vs 22 ohm DX1 line out impedance. The headphone impedance is < 1 ohm for both and irrelevant anyway since you are using Kali speakers.
If am not mistaken, active speakers have roughly 10 kilo ohms of input impedance, making the difference of line out impedance negligible. So in my view, this impedance argument doesn't explain the difference you hear and is only applicable to headphones. Unfortunately, I can't help you further. The only difference I see from the specs is the Scarlett using balanced vs DX1 using unbalanced but I doubt this would be the reason.

 

[CedarX]

Oh right, was half asleep and posted random measurements. The Scarlett Solo has "<1 Ohm", so not sure if it has more or less than the Topping.
Either way I don't feel like a difference of less than 1 Ohm in output impedance can explain why the Topping hurts my ears so much.

I would really like to understand what is the reason for this so I can see it in the measurements of other gear in the future and avoid it. It must be the amp, right? The DACs shouldn't sound that different since they're both transparent enough.

I don’t doubt you can “hear” differences between the Scarlett Solo and the DX1, but I also learned to completely distrust my ears for any objective comparisons--my ears subjective biases never stop to astonish me !!!
Since the Scarlett has an ADC, can you record and compare the DX1 and Scarlett outputs to your headphone? Something like Pkane DeltaWave software will tell you if there is a difference and where...

 

[schneeland]

More of a minor inconvenience than an actual problem, but did anyone else find that the software volume for the DX1 slightly shifts between uses (in particular after reboots or sleep/resume cycles? E.g. I set it to 60, but next time I use it, it is at 59 (or 66 becomes 67, etc.).

 

[Jimster480]

If you think this is sharp.. wait to hear the DX3 Pro+. I had both and the DX3 is like a knife in the ears.. Now this DX1 is better and warm. Maybe my DX3 was faulty and this DX1 is good? Who knows

Sharp? Makes little sense overall... usually things are sharp when there is not enough power for your headphone because only the high frequencies have enough power to transmit since lower frequencies need exponentially more power.

 

[Sinead]

I have some issues with this device: Recently I bought the Topping DX1 for listening to audio as well as a Focusrite Scarlett Solo for digital Piano playing.

I expected that the DX1 would sound noticeably better especially because of the amp, and it does feel like it's a bit more detailed. But it does sound extremely sharp and a bit empty around the low end. The Scarlett doesn't have this effect at all. Maybe this is also why the DX1 one feels more detailed.

Even at much higher volumes the Scarlett doesn't cause me pain, while the Topping does even when very quiet. Lowering the mid range and high frequencies with an EQ seems to make no difference in that regard. It's just a quality the sound of the Topping has, no matter the EQ settings, while the Scarlett sounds rather pleasant with any EQ setting. The quality of the recording of the music also doesn't matter as the issue is the same with rough metal music as much as great soft classical recordings.

This is definitely not something related to psychoacoustics because my ears actually start to hurt, and I'm getting fatigue with the DX1 almost instantly, and adjusting the mids and highs in my EQ doesn't help either.

Is there a scientific explanation for this? Something you can see in the measurements?

My only idea is that the Topping might be more transparent than the Scarlett, and therefore, and doesn't dull the sound as much. However, it confuses me that EQing doesn't solve the issue.

I don't believe my unit is faulty since everything is clean and I can hear all the instruments properly which should be there. It just sounds somewhat unnaturally bright and sharp.

Hi! Just got one DX 1 two days ago. My experience is that it can sound very precise and analytical, yes. But have not found it to sound especially shrill or empty bodied. I've compared it to the NI Komplete Audio 1 interface that i have, and found the NI "warmer" but the DX1 way more accurate and clear in reproduction, wich i personally like very much. It could be a subjective thing, due to more power in the DX 1, but to make a long story short i prefer the DX 1 for listening purposes. Hope that helps a bit!

Cheers!

 

[Peib]

Hello!
Is DX1 powerful enough to drive Akg k712 ? Or shall I go for DX3 pro + instead of DX1?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Sinead]

Hello!
Is DX1 powerful enough to drive Akg k712 ? Or shall I go for DX3 pro + instead of DX1?
Thanks in advance!

I've tried my Superlux HD 681 on the DX1 wich are 64 ohm-s (2 x 32 ohm) and they are driven over the top on the H gain setting and sound very good. (Both on 3,5 and 6,3 mm outputs) On the L setting they are also fine, but leave something to be desired regarding power. Hope that helps!

 

[staticV3]

Is DX1 powerful enough to drive Akg k712 ? Or shall I go for DX3 pro + instead of DX1?

The DX1 is powerful enough to drive the K712 Pro to an insane 118dB SPL peak. Even with a Preamp and EQ applied, you'll have more than enough volume.

I've tried my Superlux HD 681 wich are 64 ohm-s (2 x 32 ohm)

That's not how load impedance works. You don't add Left and Right together.

 

[Sinead]

The DX1 is powerful enough to drive the K712 Pro to an insane 118dB SPL peak. Even with a Preamp and EQ applied, you'll have more than enough volume.


That's not how load impedance works. You don't add Left and Right together.

You are right, they are 32 ohm headphones, I've just checked the site.

 

[Palladium]

I'm surprised the DX1 doesn't auto mute the line-out when headphones are plugged.

Oh well.

 

[Alexium]

Why should it? That would be an anti-feature.

 

[CedarX]

Why should it? That would be an anti-feature.

I wish the DX1 had an additional switch to select between fixed, always-on, LO and variable (preamp), auto-mute, LO… That would make DX1 the perfect PC interface for active speakers / headphone listening.

 

[Real_Dan]

Hi, total noob here

Would this be sufficient to drive Sennheiser HD 600 at a "sort of similar" quality level to the topping L30 II? or is it more designed for IEMS?

I was told L30 II is an excellent standard for a transparent amp for mixing headphones.

Coming from a Scarlett solo 3rd gen which apparently does not have a great HP amp.. looking for a small bump in bass and transient definition if this will get it for me?

Used to have HD660S and am missing that transient clarity and bass definition that I used to have. Had to sell the HD660S because I just mix way better on the HD600.. I know weird situation. some day I'll buy the 660 again but I still love these no doubt.

Any advice on amping the HD600 and wether it'll make a difference would be greatly appreciated!

 

[staticV3]

Would this be sufficient to drive Sennheiser HD 600 at a "sort of similar" quality level to the topping L30 II?

Yes. Plenty of volume for the HD600, even with lots of negative pre amp to EQ the bass up to Harman.

Coming from a Scarlett solo 3rd gen which apparently does not have a great HP amp.. looking for a small bump in bass and transient definition if this will get it for me?

No. Both devices are flat (without sound character).