Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[sarumbear]

You might get a bunch more even order distortion since it won't be canceling any longer, but that's not exactly the biggest problem.

What is not cancelling?

 

[Labjr]

I cannot see what can be the problem. Can you?

Topping D10 Balanced can not be converted to single ended. Maybe you can tell us why since you seem to know everything?

 

[sarumbear]

Topping D10 Balanced can not be converted to single ended. Maybe you can tell us why since you seem to know everything?

Who says that it can’t be converted, what is the issue they have?

I cannot imagine a scenario where a balanced output cannot be connected to a balance input?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I cannot see what can be the problem. Can you?

1. If the naive user employs a mono TS plug, it will short the output.
2. At least one manufacturer has cautioned against loading one leg of the output while leaving the other unloaded citing possible problems for the output stage.
In general, I like to err towards caution when advising apparently naive users.

 

[tifune]

Link please.

Dolby Access - Official app in the Microsoft Store

Download Dolby Access to start your free trial of Dolby Atmos for Headphones or set up a Dolby Atmos device. Hear stunning detail, precision, and realism in your games, movies, and shows with sound that flows all around you — even overhead and behind you. Dolby Access also allows you to...

www.microsoft.com

I can see why some people think it's a shim for upstream AVRs, but when I enable it + upmixer I get "7.1" playback. It's somewhat strange, my Denon shows Dolby Surround on all channels but I'm getting front, front height, surround back, and rear height. No center or surround channels. Same thing that happens using Atmos via Amazon or Apple Windows apps

You probably didn't read what the app is actually doing, did you?

I don't need the app for that, so I'm not sure what the purpose of Atmos for HT would be in that case

 

[Labjr]

Who says that it can’t be converted, what is the issue they have?

I cannot imagine a scenario where a balanced output cannot be connected to a balance input?

Maybe why some people are questioning the DM-7 having only balanced outputs?

 

[sarumbear]

1. If the naive user employs a mono TS plug, it will short the output.
2. At least one manufacturer has cautioned against loading one leg of the output while leaving the other unloaded citing possible problems for the output stage.
In general, I like to err towards caution when advising apparently naive users.

Use a proper cable with a matching plug on both ends. Simples!

In my mind such an advise is similar to saying don’t plug a 110V device to 220V mains socket.

 

[sarumbear]

Maybe why some people are questioning the DM-7 having only balanced outputs?View attachment 218137

That is not saying you can’t connect the D10 output to unbalanced input. It simply says don’t use an adapter. Isn’t that clear English?

 

[Veri]

That is not saying you can’t connect the D10 output to unbalanced input. It simply says don’t use an adapter. Isn’t that clear English?

That's.. not really what is meant. A great many cables with "matching" XLR/RCA or TRS/RCA plugs will not work properly (if sleeve and ring connections are tied) and the D10 balanced will perform at less than 90dB SINAD as shown by archimago on his blog.

So having the connector correspond hardly means it is a good idea to use a balanced output to connect to an unbalanced input. Usually it will hamper performance and harmonic distortion levels.

 

[voodooless]

That's.. not really what is meant. A great many cables with "matching" XLR/RCA or TRS/RCA plugs will not work properly (if sleeve and ring connections are tied)

Isn’t that an obviously stupid setup? Your grounding one of the outputs, basically overdriving one side of the balanced pair. It’s like putting the accelerator down on your car while braking. That can only leed to suffering and agony. Just terminate with something like 10k. Should be fine.

 

[sarumbear]

That's.. not really what is meant. A great many cables with "matching" XLR/RCA or TRS/RCA plugs will not work properly (if sleeve and ring connections are tied) and the D10 balanced will perform at less than 90dB SINAD as shown by archimago on his blog.

So having the connector correspond hardly means it is a good idea to use a balanced output to connect to an unbalanced input. Usually it will hamper performance and harmonic distortion levels.

No scenario requires a balanced (TRS) to unbalanced (RCA) cable to have the tip and the sleeve of the TRS plug tied together. That’s not a balanced to unbalance cable, it is a mono (RCA) to stereo (TRS) cable. One can’t complain when they use the wrong cable. Or should claim that a connection is not possible. This is audiophile 101.

 

[Sokel]

No scenario requires a balanced (TRS) to unbalanced (RCA) cable to have the tip and the sleeve of the TRS plug tied together. That’s not a balanced to unbalance cable, it is a mono (RCA) to stereo (TRS) cable. One can’t complain when they use the wrong cable. Or should claim that a connection is not possible. This is audiophile 101.

That's what Ice Power recommends,that would be ring and sleeve together if it was TRS on the side of the amp.
I have never seen tip and sleeve together,you're right.

 

[sarumbear]

That's what Ice Power recommends,that would be ring and sleeve together if it was TRS on the side of the amp.
I have never seen tip and sleeve together,you're right.


View attachment 218146

That schematic is showing an unbalanced to balanced connection. We are talking the opposite. I thought I made that very clear in my post but obviously I failed.

However, why the output pins on the schematic are labelled as IN I have no idea?

 

[Sokel]

That schematic is showing an unbalanced to balanced connection. We are talking the opposite. I thought I made that very clear in my post but obviously I failed.

You're right,I stand corrected.

 

[Sokel]

However, why the output pins on the schematic are labelled as IN I have no idea?

That's odd,have no idea either.

 

[Whoareyou]

Of course, the balanced signal can be converted to an unbalanced one if done properly, such as with a transformer or an active circuit. What you are asking, I think, is can I use an adapter that takes one side of the balanced output and uses it as an unbalanced one.

Thanks Kal.... You've clarified my (apparently) clumsily worded question / comment.

A little more info.
I just received reply from Topping support who said they would not recommend using a balanced to unbalanced connection with this DAC. I guess it's up to everyone to decide for themselves exactly what "recommend" means.

I guess it should work

 

[Labjr]

Thanks Kal.... You've clarified my (apparently) clumsily worded question / comment.

A little more info.
I just received reply from Topping support who said they would not recommend using a balanced to unbalanced connection with this DAC. I guess it's up to everyone to decide for themselves exactly what "recommend" means.

I guess it should work

That's unfortunate. I doubt they're going to make a single-ended version?

 

[dualazmak]

Hello @sarumbear and friends,

As for the obvious cons of "balanced" (TRS, XLR) to "unbalanced" (RCA) conversion, you need to carefully read this important educational post (#557 on that thread on DAC8PRO) written by Pavel of OKTO RESEARCH.

 

[maverickronin]

What is not cancelling?

Depending on the circuit, opposite distortion from the other leg you're no longer summing.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Use a proper cable with a matching plug on both ends. Simples!

In my mind such an advise is similar to saying don’t plug a 110V device to 220V mains socket.

Probably. However, the original reply was not addressed to you.