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Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

Roland68

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They put the whole transformer in varnish tank , and vacuum out the air . It cost extera.
You may be mixing something up.
There are 2 common methods, the cheaper one is a backlack wire, in which the coil / transformer is baked after winding and the turns are glued together.
The better and more expensive method is vacuum potting with epoxy resins, which removes any air between the windings.
Both methods serve to avoid vibrations and short circuits.
 

Mrgoogle

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You may be mixing something up.
There are 2 common methods, the cheaper one is a backlack wire, in which the coil / transformer is baked after winding and the turns are glued together.
The better and more expensive method is vacuum potting with epoxy resins, which removes any air between the windings.
Both methods serve to avoid vibrations and short circuits.
Yes , I mean that , sorry.
 

JohnYang1997

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Mrgoogle

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It should be "coil whine" alright.
Yes , in case switching frequency in DC/DC( or 50 ,60Hz in main transformer ) viberat the wire winding inside the coil , high end audio usually put a lot of details attention on just power supply transformer to make them silent best and most expensive method is vacuum epoxy potting, I buy myself these for my amplifier, https://sklep.toroidy.pl/en_US/p/TT...sformer-TSAS30VA-voltage-from-55-to-100-V/377.
They are very heavy too , feel very high end ,
 

JohnYang1997

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Yes , in case switching frequency in DC/DC( or 50 ,60Hz in main transformer ) viberat the wire winding inside the coil , high end audio usually put a lot of details attention on just power supply transformer to make them silent best and most expensive method is vacuum epoxy potting, I buy myself these for my amplifier, https://sklep.toroidy.pl/en_US/p/TT...sformer-TSAS30VA-voltage-from-55-to-100-V/377.
They are very heavy too , feel very high end ,
What I meant was the so called coil whine is not necessarily coming from coil.
 

Mrgoogle

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What I meant was the so called coil whine is not necessarily coming from coil.
yes , you are right , it could come from ceramic capacitor or electrolyte capacitor too or even semiconductor too, I made amplifier with soft start that controlled by MCU (PIC16F1619 which has angular timer inbuild) and with triac, angular switching the main power , during soft start it buzzing in diodes in rectifier when it output filter capacitor ( around 4x82000uF ) get charged close to pick voltage , the reason showed to be after a lot of simulation in LTSpice that , during switching ( softstart duration only ) secondary side of transformer with combination of output capacitor make parallel resonance frequency ( buzzing sound ) . this buzzing in my case was not such issue because it is only during softstart, and when after softstart click out , the relay come and no more switching at main .
 

Roland68

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What I meant was the so called coil whine is not necessarily coming from coil.
It can come from all components through which a power / signal flows, even resistors can whine.
It also depends very much on the placement, soldering and installation (mechanical tension) of the components, as well as the board material and thickness, etc.
In the case of transformers and coils, however, it indicates a cheap to poor manufacturing quality.
 
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Do you contend that the removed "high-quality components" adversely impacted the performance of the D90SE? If so, would be interested in your analysis.
The D90SE proved that toroidal transformers, Accusilicon oscillators, linear regulators from Texas Instrument, Nichicon filter capacitors, etc. was useless in order to obtain high performance.

Improving efficiency such as reducing the number of parts and downsizing is the correct evolution.
Furthermore, the D90SE has achieved the highest performance.

I want you to achieve the theoretical value in the future.
Do we have to live at 0K?
Well, let's compromise at 290K.

The end of DAC development.

What kind of sound does it make?
No, nothing. Copper wire for DA conversion.
It is not affected by the subjectivity of the audio designer.
There are no obstacles.

Only the hearts of composers and performers are transmitted.
I just want to say it's a little "cheap". You don't use a $900 DAC for a few weeks, several months. If you think every DAC has the same sound as much as the measurement is good, why do you buy D90SE? Why you don't buy SMSL Su-9 or Gustard x16 for only half price? You spend $400 for 2db SINAD that you can't hear it? Why does a DAC cost twice a different DAC with almost equivalent measurements and the structural components are also not better? Yes, high quality components do not make "measurements" better. High quality components will promise higher reliability over time. The problem I want to say here is durability, senior feeling. SINAD 123dB exceeds your hearing ability., and let's take several dBs for construction quality. The Sinad race should end here, focus more on the quality of construction and use experience. Be balanced everything, don't listen to music like the machines. Look at how Singxer, Gustard builds their products. Reliability is definitely higher.
I'm sure Topping/@JohnYang1997 know what they're doing. Your post reads mostly like empty accusations...
Yes, they certainly know what they are doing.. But it is at the angle of manufacturer, they are beneficial. I am talking about consumers.
If you only spend your money in a way: go ASR read the measurement and then go to Amazon order. OK simply don't think the same. :)
Sorry for my bad English.
 
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JohnYang1997

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I just want to say it's a little "cheap". You don't use a $900 DAC for a few weeks, several months. If you think every DAC has the same sound as much as the measurement is good, why do you buy D90SE? Why you don't buy SMSL Su-9 or Gustard x16 for only half price? You spend $400 for 2db SINAD that you can't hear it? Why does a DAC cost twice a different DAC with almost equivalent measurements and the structural components are also not better? Yes, high quality components do not make "measurements" better. High quality components will promise higher reliability over time. The problem I want to say here is durability, senior feeling. SINAD 123dB exceeds your hearing ability., and let's take several dBs for construction quality. The Sinad race should end here, focus more on the quality of construction and use experience. Be balanced everything, don't listen to music like the machines. Look at how Singxer, Gustard builds their products. Reliability is definitely higher.

Yes, they certainly know what they are doing.. But it is at the angle of manufacturer, they are beneficial. I am talking about consumers.
If you only spend your money in a way: go ASR read the measurement and then go to Amazon order. OK simply don't think the same. :)
Sorry for my bad English.
The SMPS we used are probably the highest quality ones among us.
Some of others you mentioned use linear power supply. So they have other different good or bad things with them.
 

Roland68

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I just want to say it's a little "cheap".
Many users here forget that you not only pay for the components, but also for the entire development effort. With such a device, this is at least a medium 5-digit dollar amount to 6-digit.
Especially in this forum you should know by now how important well and fully developed devices are.
Neither can I find any cheap components in the D90se, nor any savings measures. The Mean Well switched-mode power supply is not expensive, but it is one of the best that the market currently has to offer.
In professional circles (I don't necessarily mean audio) it is not entirely unknown that SMD crystals can deliver a better performance, because they do not offer so much mechanical attack surface.
The power supply also seems to be a good engineering job, otherwise the device would not have such good readings.

I'm excited to test it out soon.
I have already received very good feedback on the D90se from several very critical users, and that makes me curious.
 
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Many users here forget that you not only pay for the components, but also for the entire development effort. With such a device, this is at least a medium 5-digit dollar amount to 6-digit.
Especially in this forum you should know by now how important well and fully developed devices are.
Neither can I find any cheap components in the D90se, nor any savings measures. The Mean Well switched-mode power supply is not expensive, but it is one of the best that the market currently has to offer.
In professional circles (I don't necessarily mean audio) it is not entirely unknown that SMD crystals can deliver a better performance, because they do not offer so much mechanical attack surface.
The power supply also seems to be a good engineering job, otherwise the device would not have such good readings.

I'm excited to test it out soon.
I have already received very good feedback on the D90se from several very critical users, and that makes me curious.
Initially when I knew this site about 2 years ago, I saw Amirm want to search for cheap devices and have good measurements. With D90SE, it still has performance in the top class, but clearly the construction quality has come down. That is indisputable. With similar selling prices, component costs are much lower, this has made it no longer "cheap". I believe if they (Topping) want, they can completely make the next D70S with $650 and equivalent measurement performance or more.
 

JohnYang1997

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Initially when I knew this site about 2 years ago, I saw Amir want to search for cheap devices and have good measurements. With D90SE, it still has performance in the top class, but clearly the construction quality has come down. That is indisputable. With similar selling prices, component costs are much lower, this has made it no longer "cheap". I believe if they (Topping) want, they can completely make the next D70S with $650 and equivalent measurement performance or more.
Tell me what construction quality has come down? There's also D10 balanced that's probably the cheapest good performing balanced dac out there.
D70s? Oh come on.
 
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The SMPS we used are probably the highest quality ones among us.
Some of others you mentioned use linear power supply. So they have other different good or bad things with them.
Dear John, I own a D70s from your company and it's a great DAC both about building hardware and sound. And when I saw the motherboard of D90SE, I was a little frustrated. Keep construction quality as D90, D70s, DX7Pro or DX3 Pro. Obviously what did well, don't improve anymore.
 

b4nt

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Dear John, I own a D70s from your company and it's a great DAC both about building hardware and sound. And when I saw the motherboard of D90SE, I was a little frustrated. Keep construction quality as D90, D70s, DX7Pro or DX3 Pro. Obviously what did well, don't improve anymore.

What do you prefer to see inside? Audio grade colorfull big and nice capacitors or low noise power supply chips?
 

JohnYang1997

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Dear John, I own a D70s from your company and it's a great DAC both about building hardware and sound. And when I saw the motherboard of D90SE, I was a little frustrated. Keep construction quality as D90, D70s, DX7Pro or DX3 Pro. Obviously what did well, don't improve anymore.
While others say it's much better. It's a fact that it's actually much better by eliminating the capacitors if that's what you think it's better. The layout is done much nicer for best performance that you won't get without.
It's different now because it's now fully driven by verified deisgns not something that just please someone's eyes.
 
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