Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[Miska]

It's the same model and RME follows the policy of selling a functionality which is the 100% same for all models.

For me, the functional difference is lack of DSD Direct mode in ESS model.

 

[KSTR]

For me, the functional difference is lack of DSD Direct mode in ESS model.

Yep. There are of course differences on the expert level for power users like you, even writing their own DSD modulators and player software ;-)
I could argue that I prefer the ESS because it has a proper brickwall filter in PCM modes that continues to work above 192kHz sample rates whereas the AKM's do not produce clean (mirror-free) sines near fs/2, especially above 192kHz where the digital filter is off.

IMHO, the practical question in the end is whether this makes an audible or operational difference for 99.99% of use-cases. I don't think so, and RME has gone so far to even mimick the AKM filters with the ESS to make the results as identical as possible for applications where it does matter (44.1k/48k PCM playback). Other subtle things like headroom for intersample overs are adressed as well.

 

[Music1969]

Yep. There are of course differences on the expert level for power users like you, even writing their own DSD modulators and player software ;-)
I could argue that I prefer the ESS because it has a proper brickwall filter in PCM modes that continues to work above 192kHz sample rates whereas the AKM's do not produce clean (mirror-free) sines near fs/2, especially above 192kHz where the digital filter is off.

IMHO, the practical question in the end is whether this makes an audible or operational difference for 99.99% of use-cases. I don't think so, and RME has gone so far to even mimick the AKM filters with the ESS to make the results as identical as possible for applications where it does matter (44.1k/48k PCM playback). Other subtle things like headroom for intersample overs are adressed as well.

But does the ESS model ADI-2 "feature" ESS hump ?

AKM model is clean in that regard.

 

[tom1502]

Hi all, just registered, first post.
i bought a used few months old D90SE. Love the sound! But when switching inputs or changing tracks with different bitrates I get a substantial pop sound if connected to a power amp directly. via a preamp, that does not seem to,be the case. I tried it both via a Mac mini running Roon and a raspberry running volumi. Each time, connection was usb.
did I get a defective device?

thanks and cheers!
tom

 

[Reynaldo]

Hi all, just registered, first post.
i bought a used few months old D90SE. Love the sound! But when switching inputs or changing tracks with different bitrates I get a substantial pop sound if connected to a power amp directly. via a preamp, that does not seem to,be the case. I tried it both via a Mac mini running Roon and a raspberry running volumi. Each time, connection was usb.
did I get a defective device?

thanks and cheers!
tom

Are you using Windows or iOS?

 

[tom1502]

Are you using Windows or iOS?

MacOS. Tried on both the mini as well as a MacBook Pro.
Raspberry is a Linux of course…

 

[Roland68]

Hi all, just registered, first post.
i bought a used few months old D90SE. Love the sound! But when switching inputs or changing tracks with different bitrates I get a substantial pop sound if connected to a power amp directly. via a preamp, that does not seem to,be the case. I tried it both via a Mac mini running Roon and a raspberry running volumi. Each time, connection was usb.
did I get a defective device?

thanks and cheers!
tom

If this only happens with a direct connection to the power amp, but not via a preamp, it could be a DC component that is being generated.

 

[Reynaldo]

MacOS. Tried on both the mini as well as a MacBook Pro.
Raspberry is a Linux of course…

If you're using iOS it shouldn't be a problem.
With iOS I never had any problems even using different DACs, already with Windows due to the ASIO driver, there were several problems with Audirvana.
It cannot be ruled out that the DAC has a problem.

 

[tom1502]

If you're using iOS it shouldn't be a problem.
With iOS I never had any problems even using different DACs, already with Windows due to the ASIO driver, there were several problems with Audirvana.
It cannot be ruled out that the DAC has a problem.

How can I determine if it is the case that the DAC has a problem?

 

[Reynaldo]

I didn't say the DAC is in trouble, it's a possibility.
See also the information that @Roland68 provided.
If you bought it recently, contact the store.

 

[tom1502]

If this only happens with a direct connection to the power amp, but not via a preamp, it could be a DC component that is being generated.

how do I determine if it is a DC component being generated?

 

[Roland68]

how do I determine if it is a DC component being generated?

It is best to measure with an oscilloscope.
Under certain circumstances it could also be a grounding problem, which is of course difficult to say.
You could also add coupling capacitors in the signal path between the DAC and the power amp to lock out DC, but please only do this if it's within your skill set, otherwise you could destroy something.

What amp do you have?

 

[Reynaldo]

How can I determine if it is the case that the DAC has a problem?

Is this device new or used?

 

[ahramlee]

For those seeking an SACD transport option for the Topping D90se that circumvents its S/PDIF receiver problems—specifically for those with an Oppo BDP-103/105 or a UDP-203/205–I found a terrific option that achieves a quality on par with PSAudio’s PerfectWave SACD transport ($6,900) at a fraction of the cost.

There’s a website called Oppomod.com that sells hardware mods for the above-mentioned Oppo blu-ray players that require minimal to no soldering or significant alterations to the unit, and also don’t compromise the native player’s functions. Since the warranty period for these players is long past, there’s not much to lose.

I bought four of their mods for my UDP-203–a PCM/DoP board upgrade, a BD-ROM stabilizer, an I2S output board, and a linear power supply upgrade. There were options to add a Femto clock upgrade that required soldering and a more complex install that I passed on for now. Total cost for all four mods was $1100; for just the PCM/DoP and I2S mods the cost is $600.

The PCM/DoP mod replaces the Oppo’s analog output DAC board for one that adds a new user menu—one that allows you to bypass Oppo’s coax output limit of 48khz 16 bit downsampling to now output 192/24 via a new coaxial port.

The BD-ROM stabilizer provides more accurate data retrieval from the CD player mechanism and upgrades the transport to the quality of the limited edition Japanese BDP-105 unit.

The LPM SE substantially upgrades the existing power supply from a switching version to an audiophile-grade toroidal option.

The I2S mod is an add-on card that shunts all the digital data streams out of an I2S port that is identical to the pinout of PSAudio’s SACD transports (of note, PSAudio still uses Oppo’s transport for their own products). Similar to the PerfectWave, the I2S output allows the native SACD data stream to be sent to the Topping to be natively decoded there. It also sends Red Book CD data streams upscaled to 192/24 to be decoded by the Topping.

I’ve received all four mods and plan to install them this weekend. I’ll send photos of the process in the next few days. The designer of the mods is very accessible and responsive via email and shipping was super fast—I got them from S. Korea within 8 days.

If anyone is interested I’m happy to answer any questions! I’m committed to finding workarounds for the significant input receiver issues with the Topping d90SE, because otherwise I think it’s a top-notch DAC.

—Steve

Hey Steve,

I may have missed a post here, but what were the results of you installing the I2S board from oppomod in your Oppo? I ask, because I just installed mine tonight, and I have an issue when playing SACDs on my Oppo 103 and outputting via the oppomod I2S board into my Topping d90se’s I2S input:

I’m only getting the right channel speaker to output sound. No audio on the left channel speaker. This is with my oppo’s sacd output set to DSD.

I can only get both left and right channels to play when I set sacd output to PCM.

I’ve been going back and forth with Jaehong from oppomod about this, and he tells me that the Topping d90se has a “unique dsd flag signal”. I have played with the I2S pin settings on the Topping using its settings menu and have not been successful in getting stereo output with the oppo’s sacd output set to DSD.

Are you able to get stereo output from your Topping D90se through your I2S port connected from your oppo through the oppomod i2s board and sacd output set to DSD?

 

[Roland68]

Hey Steve,

I may have missed a post here, but what were the results of you installing the I2S board from oppomod in your Oppo? I ask, because I just installed mine tonight, and I have an issue when playing SACDs on my Oppo 103 and outputting via the oppomod I2S board into my Topping d90se’s I2S input:

I’m only getting the right channel speaker to output sound. No audio on the left channel speaker. This is with my oppo’s sacd output set to DSD.

I can only get both left and right channels to play when I set sacd output to PCM.

I’ve been going back and forth with Jaehong from oppomod about this, and he tells me that the Topping d90se has a “unique dsd flag signal”. I have played with the I2S pin settings on the Topping using its settings menu and have not been successful in getting stereo output with the oppo’s sacd output set to DSD.

Are you able to get stereo output from your Topping D90se through your I2S port connected from your oppo through the oppomod i2s board and sacd output set to DSD?

Many DACs require the DSD flag.
You could ask the manufacturer if the DSD flag is set with a voltage or ground reference, then you could set it manually if necessary.

 

[ahramlee]

Many DACs require the DSD flag.
You could ask the manufacturer if the DSD flag is set with a voltage or ground reference, then you could set it manually if necessary.

The Topping D90SE has the DSD flag assigned to pin 15 by default and can be assigned to pin 14 using the menu settings. I have set the DSD flag to pin 14 and have tried the other I2S specific settings on the Topping D90SE and I’m still getting audio output from only one channel and not stereo.

Are there other owners of the Topping D90SE, who also have installed the oppomod I2S board in their Oppo and can share their experience? Are you able to get stereo output by having the SACD output set to DSD or did you have to resort to setting it to PCM?

The purpose for my purchase of the oppomod I2S is to output SACD using DSD and not PCM. As a side-note: I have an Emotiva XMC-2 that I used to process DSD from my Oppo 103 but I thought I would try to compare the sound quality of the Topping processing DSD to the Emotiva’s built-in DAC.

 

[Roland68]

The Topping D90SE has the DSD flag assigned to pin 15 by default and can be assigned to pin 14 using the menu settings. I have set the DSD flag to pin 14 and have tried the other I2S specific settings on the Topping D90SE and I’m still getting audio output from only one channel and not stereo.

Are there other owners of the Topping D90SE, who also have installed the oppomod I2S board in their Oppo and can share their experience? Are you able to get stereo output by having the SACD output set to DSD or did you have to resort to setting it to PCM?

The purpose for my purchase of the oppomod I2S is to output SACD using DSD and not PCM. As a side-note: I have an Emotiva XMC-2 that I used to process DSD from my Oppo 103 but I thought I would try to compare the sound quality of the Topping processing DSD to the Emotiva’s built-in DAC.

It doesn't matter if the DSD flag is on pin 14 or 15. It's just a switch that tells the DAC that a DSD signal is present. This info must come from the source device.
The Oppomod i2s board has no function to set this flag, which excludes some current DACs on the market.

 

[ahramlee]

Thank you, Roland68.

Does this mean that the oppomod I2S board does not send the DSD flag signal?

I know that many have modded their Oppo with the oppomod I2S board to connect to their PS Audio DAC’s I2S input to send DSD over I2S. Do you have any insight into what the difference is on the Topping D90SE’s I2S port vs the PS audio’s I2S port?

From your perspective, can you think of a solution to getting DSD to work over I2S if the oppomod’s I2S is not a viable option?

 

[Roland68]

Thank you, Roland68.

Does this mean that the oppomod I2S board does not send the DSD flag signal?

I know that many have modded their Oppo with the oppomod I2S board to connect to their PS Audio DAC’s I2S input to send DSD over I2S. Do you have any insight into what the difference is on the Topping D90SE’s I2S port vs the PS audio’s I2S port?

From your perspective, can you think of a solution to getting DSD to work over I2S if the oppomod’s I2S is not a viable option?

Exactly, according to the description, the oppomod board cannot do that.

You would have the following options:
1.You could ask the manufacturer if they can modify the board for you.
2. You dare to modify the board or HDMI cable yourself.
3. You order 2 DIY circuit boards from Aliexpress for around $50-60. with it you can extract both PCM and DSD from the normal HDMI port and also set the DSD flag bit. I will use this solution for myself.

Theoretically, there are also other cards or devices, but I can't find any interface descriptions for these, so that the function is not guaranteed, maybe they don't issue a DSD flag bit either.

 

[ahramlee]

Exactly, according to the description, the oppomod board cannot do that.

You would have the following options:
1.You could ask the manufacturer if they can modify the board for you.
2. You dare to modify the board or HDMI cable yourself.
3. You order 2 DIY circuit boards from Aliexpress for around $50-60. with it you can extract both PCM and DSD from the normal HDMI port and also set the DSD flag bit. I will use this solution for myself.

Theoretically, there are also other cards or devices, but I can't find any interface descriptions for these, so that the function is not guaranteed, maybe they don't issue a DSD flag bit either.

Thank you. Roland68.

I looked everywhere on oppomod’s web site about the I2S board not sending the DSD Flag signal. Can you please provide the link to the description that you’re referring to? Is this perhaps implied somehow/somewhere in the description of the board that it’s not passing the DSD Flag signal?

For the two circuit boards on Aliexpress, would you mind sending me the links to them? Do you know of anyone having good results with them and the Topping D90SE?