Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[Racheski]

Thanks for the suggestions, I found these premade RCA Mogami 2534 1.5 foot / 0.5 foot sets ( 4 wire) and premade RCA Mogami 2549 (2 wire) 1.0 foot as a jumper between the A90 / D90 MQA - see their Construction and Specifications images for more details:

0.5 Foot – Directional Quad High-Definition Audio Interconnect Cable Pair Custom Made by WORLDS BEST CABLES – Using Mogami 2534 Wire and Amphenol ACPR Die-Cast, Gold Plated RCA Connectors
by WORLDS BEST CABLES
https://www.amazon.com/0-5-Foot-Directional-High-Definition-Interconnect/dp/B01ALHT7CI

1.5 Foot – Directional Quad High-Definition Audio Interconnect Cable Pair Custom Made by WORLDS BEST CABLES – Using Mogami 2534 Wire and Amphenol ACPR Die-Cast, Gold Plated RCA Connectors
https://www.amazon.com/1-5-Foot-Directional-High-Definition-Interconnect/dp/B01ALHUSYE

Mogami 2534 vs 2549 - EMI shielding vs "Sound"...?

1 Foot – Directional High-Definition Audio Interconnect Cable Pair Custom Made by WORLDS BEST CABLES – Using Mogami 2549 Wire and Amphenol ACPR Die-Cast, Gold Plated RCA Connectors
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01ALFR02Y

Robert R 5.0 out of 5 stars Brand Lives Up To Its Name
Reviewed in the United States on June 23, 2020
Verified Purchase
"Very nice high quality interconnect. I did some research and the Mogami 2549 in this offering seems to be a better option vs. heavier shielded cable also offered by WBC which only improves EMI resistance. Some posts claim that the wire in this cable sounds better vs heavier shielded counterparts. At the end of the day, this is a high-quality well soldered interconnect with excellent packaging and presentation. It's serving my needs well in between my E30 DAC and 789 Amp."

The 0.5m XLR cables from SKW are working fine - no noise even at H Gain 100% volume... so for now I'll stick with those. Amazon has SKW 1.5m as the shortest length; the 0.5m length I sourced from Hifigo in China:
https://hifigo.com/products/skw-hif...ixer-amplifiers-1-pair?variant=32043150934065
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33034630648.html
https://www.amazon.com/SKW-Balanced-Female-Microphone-2-Pack/dp/B07Q8Q16F9

Has anyone with the D90 / A90 / ? fixed or substantially improved the RCA connection "noise" by shortening RCA cables or buying better shielded RCA cables? How about better shielded USB cables?, or some other method of reducing the PC noise brought in through the USB cable? If you've debugged your noise problem to root cause + solution, please let us know the details.

Before I spend $ on new RCA / USB cables or other solutions, I'd like to know if it's worth the effort. I'd like to use RCA output from the A90 to drive power speakers, but I could put the extra $ instead into better powered speakers + XLR cables.

I used 6 inch RCA cables from the SMSL M300 MKII into the A90 and still had noise. I even purchased a Jensen ISO-MAX CI-2RR passive ground isolator designed to "eliminate hum and buzz caused by ground loops in the most demanding audio systems", and that still did not work, although even if it did work I probably would have still returned it due to its cost.

Then I bought 1ft XLR cables for $18 each and the noise was gone.

 

[smallricey]

It doesn’t seem to send the MQA music file the same way. For example, whith Tidal in exclusive mode, some MQA tracks will play at 88.2 kHz on non-MQA DACs and 44.1 kHz on MQA DACs... Why? I don’t know. I’m sure there’s a reason and if I take the time to study MQA implementation I’ll know. My point is that it does things differently, I don’t have a D90 non-MQA to compare against my D90 MQA. If Topping wants to lend me one for 2 weeks, I’d be happy to report my subjective impressions. ;-)
What I can tell you is that the D90 MQA in my main speaker system sounds amazing, and when playing MQA master tracks even more amazing.

Looks like this is it
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mqa-bit-rate-analysis-and-1st-unfold-question/43837/6

 

[EchoChamber]

Looks like this is it
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/mqa-bit-rate-analysis-and-1st-unfold-question/43837/6

Now I get it, thanks for enlightening me.
So first unfold will always output a 88.2 kHz or a 96 kHz sampling rate. Meaning, if I don’t have an MQA DAC, I’m always getting those rates from an MQA file. If I have an MQA DAC then the sampling rate will be the same as the recording final file. And that could be more than, less than, or equal to a 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz sampling rate.

 

[smallricey]

Now I get it, thanks for enlightening me.
So first unfold will always output a 88.2 kHz or a 96 kHz sampling rate. Meaning, if I don’t have an MQA DAC, I’m always getting those rates from an MQA file. If I have an MQA DAC then the sampling rate will be the same as the recording final file. And that could more, less, or equal to a 88.2 kHz or 96 kHz sampling rate.

Yah, apparently it's not upsampling either. I wonder wth is it lol

 

[hmscott]

I used 6 inch RCA cables from the SMSL M300 MKII into the A90 and still had noise. I even purchased a Jensen ISO-MAX CI-2RR passive ground isolator designed to "eliminate hum and buzz caused by ground loops in the most demanding audio systems", and that still did not work, although even if it did work I probably would have still returned it due to its cost.

Then I bought 1ft XLR cables for $18 each and the noise was gone.

That's too bad the short RCA's didn't help as @JohnYang1997 suggested earlier - that's the direction I was going with the 4 wire RCA without ground connection through the shield (see build configuration image below).

But, if I've already arrived at the best configuration with XLR only, I shouldn't pursue better RCA cables... I don't want to break / lift the ground pin on the A90 power.

Whatever you choose to buy, make sure it comes with a return policy. I would not over think this cabling too much. We are talking about very small distances.

It's either solve the problem with cables or other fixes - or don't waste time "over think[ing] this cabling" and return the A90?

As for me I don't mind the RCA noise sensitivities as long as I only use XLR, but upon resale or another situation it might require RCA and finding a working configuration for RCA with appropriate cables now would be useful in those situations.

Some have reported no problem on RCA with the A90 - unless they haven't noticed by switching to High Gain or Medium Gain at >50% volume - they have a setup that works for them on RCA, and I'm trying to figure out if I can arrive at a working RCA configuration or if all uses of RCA with the A90 results in noise at H Gain / M Gain + 50% or greater volume setting.

As others have mentioned they have had other equipment with RCA only configurations in their set up / location without such problems with noise as with the A90.

I'm not 100% sure on that.
A more traditional alternative solution is to lift the earth on the a90 power supply and use very short RCA cable to connect between the two devices and use the earth connection from the first device for earth.
If the dac is usb powered, then the usb cable can play a role too, shorter the better.
In the end, XLR connection is just hassle free for these devices.

John, what do you think of the chances of improving the noise rejection through the 4 wire RCA cable configuration that doesn't connect the shield to the A90? Not as good as lifting the ground perhaps, but maybe it might help - I'm willing to risk the $ to give it a try - besides Amazon Prime lets me return for any reason.

John, how about a USB cable with separate data / power + ground between the D90 and PC (or other source)? Any suggestions?, perhaps something a bit cheaper than the ifi Gemini - BHphoto has it for $130 off right now:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._0306020_0_7m_usb2_0_gemini3_0_usb_b_2_0.html

BTW, Hifigo has offered to let me return the A90, but I'd like to find a solution to the RCA noise problem so I don't need to return the A90(+D90).

 

[burma]

It doesn’t seem to send the MQA music file the same way. For example, whith Tidal in exclusive mode, some MQA tracks will play at 88.2 kHz on non-MQA DACs and 44.1 kHz on MQA DACs... Why? I don’t know. I’m sure there’s a reason and if I take the time to study MQA implementation I’ll know. My point is that it does things differently, I don’t have a D90 non-MQA to compare against my D90 MQA. If Topping wants to lend me one for 2 weeks, I’d be happy to report my subjective impressions. ;-)
What I can tell you is that the D90 MQA in my main speaker system sounds amazing, and when playing MQA master tracks even more amazing.

Since you have the D90 MQA and Tidal, I'm curious if you have this issue. When I go to play some MASTER tracks, the DAC jumps around from 48 back to 44.1, back to 48, and then finally settles on 192 (or whatever the final is) before I hear anything. Meanwhile, the song has started so I get to hear only a few seconds in. And on the same album, going to the next track (or back), it does the same. It's like it's trying to figure things out on the fly, or unfolding or whatever, but it's annoying. Try the album below in particular and let me know if you have the same experience.

And funny enough, all the Jay-Z MASTER songs I try, show as MQA at 44.1..

 

[EchoChamber]

Since you have the D90 MQA and Tidal, I'm curious if you have this issue. When I go to play some MASTER tracks, the DAC jumps around from 48 back to 44.1, back to 48, and then finally settles on 192 (or whatever the final is) before I hear anything. Meanwhile, the song has started so I get to hear only a few seconds in. And on the same album, going to the next track (or back), it does the same. It's like it's trying to figure things out on the fly, or unfolding or whatever, but it's annoying. Try the album below in particular and let me know if you have the same experience.

View attachment 72122

And funny enough, all the Jay-Z MASTER songs I try, show as MQA at 44.1..

Yes, I have the same issue. It’s Tidal in exclusive mode that does that. It will jump between your DAC “default” sampling rate to the track’s specific sampling rate. Each time it changes rate in the DAC it mutes the output but doesn’t pause the playback. One thing that helps is to set your default rate to 44.1 kHz since the vast majority of tracks in Tidal are sampled at 44.1 kHz it won’t be changing rate that often. I’m now using Roon and it lets me set a delay time before playing a song when changing sampling rates or formats. I have it set to 500 ms to make sure I don’t miss anything when changing tracks with different rates. Also Roon appears to be more responsive when jumping ahead within a track or between tracks.

That happens with all my DACs btw, not just the D90 MQA. It is a Tidal app issue, or MacOS or both.

 

[burma]

Yes, I have the same issue. It’s Tidal in exclusive mode that does that. It will jump between your DAC “default” sampling rate to the track’s specific sampling rate. Each time it changes rate in the DAC it mutes the output but doesn’t pause the playback. One thing that helps is to set your default rate to 44.1 kHz since the vast majority of tracks in Tidal are sampled at 44.1 kHz it won’t be jumping all the time. I’m now using Roon and it lets me set a delay time before playing a song when changing sampling rates or formats. I have it set to 500 ms to make sure I don’t miss anything when changing tracks. Also Roon appears to be more responsive when jumping ahead within a track or between tracks.

That happens with all my DACs btw, not just the D90 MQA. It is a Tidal app issue.

Good to know, thanks. See my last comment about Jay-Z's music. It's MQA at 44.1, which is strange given his status with the company. I thought it was a mistake.

 

[EchoChamber]

Good to know, thanks. See my last comment about Jay-Z's music. It's MQA at 44.1, which is strange given his status with the company. I thought it was a mistake.

I know... It is ironic. Based on that Roon thread (link a few posts above), it looks like 1/4 of MQA tracks in Tidal are 44.1 kHz. I think it really has to do with optimizing file size for streaming.

 

[Rover]

Thanks to adaptive filters, the high-frequency content that is played at the end of the MQA chain does not match what was present in the source files with a high sample rate. If you ask me, I would rather listen to the original high-resolution content than the processed "enhanced" version.
After the response from Benchmark MQA, the topic can be closed!Full response from the most influential manufacturer.
MQA-bullshit!!!
https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa

 

[EchoChamber]

Thanks to adaptive filters, the high-frequency content that is played at the end of the MQA chain does not match what was present in the source files with a high sample rate. If you ask me, I would rather listen to the original high-resolution content than the processed "enhanced" version. after the response from benchmark MQA, the topic can be closed!Full response from the most influential manufacturer.MQA-bullshit!!!https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa

I think the article questions a lot of the MQA claims in a healthy manner. Non conclusive nevertheless whether it provides a sonic enhancement or not. I’ve compared some recordings I have ripped from CDs with the same track from Tidal and I find the Master MQA Tidal version playing on my D90 MQA to sound different than the ripped one. It sounds “bigger“ and “flows” better, a subjective improvement IMO. Now that could be an effect from filtering as the article mentions and might not work positively for all tracks. So far I haven’t found any practical drawbacks from having the hardware decoder in the D90.

I also perceive differences between different HD streaming services and ripped CD files, I think these are all artifacts from the different compression algorithms used for streaming. And MQA is just that, a compression algorithm. And none of them seem to be truly lossless and perfectly transparent.

 

[Rover]

I think the article questions a lot of the MQA claims in a healthy manner. Non conclusive nevertheless whether it provides a sonic enhancement or not. I’ve compared some recordings I have ripped from CDs with the same track from Tidal and I find the Master MQA Tidal version playing on my D90 MQA to sound different than the ripped one. It sounds “bigger“ and “flows” better, a subjective improvement IMO. Now that could be an effect from filtering as the article mentions and might not work positively for all tracks. So far I haven’t found any practical drawbacks from having the hardware decoder in the D90.

I also perceive differences between different streaming services and ripped CD files, I think these are all artifacts from the different compression algorithms used for streaming. And MQA is just that, a compression algorithm. And none of them seem to be truly lossless.

This is not proven.Because there is no technical evidence that 96 kHz sounds is better than 192kHz.This is just a personal fantasy that has not been documented!Features of human hearing end at 20kHz!!!If you and MQA can hear the difference it means that the sound is much changed and not the original!You might as well turn on the equalizer and limiter.That would distort the sound and it will not be the original recording!
If it is not important for the listener to have the original recording then this is another question!

 

[hmscott]

Since you have the D90 MQA and Tidal, I'm curious if you have this issue. When I go to play some MASTER tracks, the DAC jumps around from 48 back to 44.1, back to 48, and then finally settles on 192 (or whatever the final is) before I hear anything. Meanwhile, the song has started so I get to hear only a few seconds in. And on the same album, going to the next track (or back), it does the same. It's like it's trying to figure things out on the fly, or unfolding or whatever, but it's annoying. Try the album below in particular and let me know if you have the same experience.

https://tidal.com/browse/album/68709104

And funny enough, all the Jay-Z MASTER songs I try, show as MQA at 44.1..

Yes, I have the same issue. It’s Tidal in exclusive mode that does that. It will jump between your DAC “default” sampling rate to the track’s specific sampling rate. Each time it changes rate in the DAC it mutes the output but doesn’t pause the playback. One thing that helps is to set your default rate to 44.1 kHz since the vast majority of tracks in Tidal are sampled at 44.1 kHz it won’t be changing rate that often. I’m now using Roon and it lets me set a delay time before playing a song when changing sampling rates or formats. I have it set to 500 ms to make sure I don’t miss anything when changing tracks with different rates. Also Roon appears to be more responsive when jumping ahead within a track or between tracks.

That happens with all my DACs btw, not just the D90 MQA. It is a Tidal app issue, or MacOS or both.

For my setup (Win 10 PC + USB + D90 MQA) clicking next track on that Eagles album the D90 MQA goes from 48khz to 192khz and plays with about 1 second delay between clicking next track and music starting.

I tried settings: 44.1khz / 48khz / 192khz / 384khz - and the D90 MQA always says 48khz first then 192khz and plays - as long as it takes to flash the 48khz / 192khz it starts playing.

I have Toppings 4.82.0 driver and D90 MQA 1.24 firmware installed. I've also recently installed Tidal again. Tidal Sound output settings are all enabled for the "Topping USB DAC".

I've not seen tracks on Tidal MQA Masters jumping through 44.1khz on the way to a final rate at all. Jay-Z's 4:44 44.1khz MQA Masters tracks show 44.1khz - flashes PCM => MQA. - plays instantly.

 

[EchoChamber]

This is not proven.Because there is no technical evidence that 96 kHz sounds is better than 192kHz.This is just a personal fantasy that has not been documented!Features of human hearing end at 20kHz!!!If you and MQA can hear the difference it means that the sound is much changed and not the original!You might as well turn on the equalizer and limiter.That would distort the sound and it will not be the original recording!
If it is not important for the listener to have the original recording then this is another question!

I agree, differences between 96 kHz or 192 kHz are not obvious and not necessarily an improvement over the equivalent 16 bit /44.1 kHz file. I don't think a format can guaranty quality. But if a format can support hi definition audio (looks like that's not the case with MQA anyway at 17 bit resolution), then it is something we probably want to keep around. Whether MQA will be a successful format or not, that's another story. If Tidal is adopting MQA, then there might be a chance of MQA being a lasting format and perhaps it will become mature with future versions, MQA v2? v3?. I don't really care, I just want to enjoy my music, but if I notice an improvement of my music enjoyment, than I will be sympathetic to whatever is helping me get to sonic bliss. If MQA is making my music sound like it's coming from a 300b SE tube amp but not forcing me to color my whole audio system, I'm happy with it. Maybe we just need an ON/OFF switch.

 

[joltman]

This thread has been a rollercoaster. I've got an issue I was hoping someone here could assist me with.

I've got a D90 (non-MQA, in DAC only mode) and a Monoprice THX 887 headphone amp. I've also got the Sennheiser HD650 cans. I decided to make my own XLR cables using Mogami W2549 and Neutrik NC3XX-B connectors. I also made my own 4-pin XLR cable to the HD650 cans using Canere L-4E6S quad star cable, Neutrik NC4MX-B and Cardas connectors. It was a fun project, but I'm hearing things that don't sound right to me. I'm hearing some crackles at higher frequencies. Specifically, higher notes on piano on Elton John's "Rotten Peaches" and static/crackling on Gregory Porter's "Hey Laura". What's interesting about the Topping / Monoprice combo, I can plug in both RCA and XLR and select between them on the Monoprice by pressing the input button. If I use the Sennheiser stock single ended cable into the 887, and select between custom XLR and pre-made RCA (and quickly adjusting for relative loudness) I'm not hearing the crackle/static on the RCAs. But when I switch to custom XLR (while still on the stock single ended cable) and adjusting volume, I'm hearing crackle at the end of instruments playing. I can't understand how just soldering wire (Mogami) into XLR cups would do this. Using a multi-meter, I've tested the XLRs and I'm not getting any crossed wires. This makes me think I need to build new XLRs. They are very short runs, maybe 12 inches? I've got the gain knob on the 887 down to a 1 and still hear some crackle. Do I need to put the DAC back into pre-amp mode and turn the volume down a bit? I've seen several other folks on this thread mention they have the same setup. Are they hearing this crackle? What should be my next step? Thanks!

 

[EchoChamber]

For my setup (Win 10 PC + USB + D90 MQA) clicking next track on that Eagles album the D90 MQA goes from 48khz to 192khz and plays with about 1 second delay between clicking next track and music starting.

I tried settings: 44.1khz / 48khz / 192khz / 384khz - and the D90 MQA always says 48khz first then 192khz and plays - as long as it takes to flash the 48khz / 192khz it starts playing.

I have Toppings 4.82.0 driver and D90 MQA 1.24 firmware installed. I've also recently installed Tidal again. Tidal Sound output settings are all enabled for the "Topping USB DAC".

I've not seen tracks on Tidal MQA Masters jumping through 44.1khz on the way to a final rate at all. Jay-Z's 4:44 44.1khz MQA Masters tracks show 44.1khz - flashes PCM => MQA. - plays instantly.

This happens to me as well on the Mac. It first decides whether the sampling rate is a multiple of 44.1 or 48, then it decides how many times it has to multiply that value to achieve the desired sampling rate, and only then it will star outputting sound. It is a slow process though, and Tidal doesn't pause playback while it is figuring out the sampling rate. It could be improved for sure, I'd suggest send them feedback. Roon seems to work much quicker. Different implementations. I think Roon is more robust than the Tidal app even though I do prefer the Tidal experience.

 

[EchoChamber]

This thread has been a rollercoaster. I've got an issue I was hoping someone here could assist me with.

I've got a D90 (non-MQA, in DAC only mode) and a Monoprice THX 887 headphone amp. I've also got the Sennheiser HD650 cans. I decided to make my own XLR cables using Mogami W2549 and Neutrik NC3XX-B connectors. I also made my own 4-pin XLR cable to the HD650 cans using Canere L-4E6S quad star cable, Neutrik NC4MX-B and Cardas connectors. It was a fun project, but I'm hearing things that don't sound right to me. I'm hearing some crackles at higher frequencies. Specifically, higher notes on piano on Elton John's "Rotten Peaches" and static/crackling on Gregory Porter's "Hey Laura". What's interesting about the Topping / Monoprice combo, I can plug in both RCA and XLR and select between them on the Monoprice by pressing the input button. If I use the Sennheiser stock single ended cable into the 887, and select between custom XLR and pre-made RCA (and quickly adjusting for relative loudness) I'm not hearing the crackle/static on the RCAs. But when I switch to custom XLR (while still on the stock single ended cable) and adjusting volume, I'm hearing crackle at the end of instruments playing. I can't understand how just soldering wire (Mogami) into XLR cups would do this. Using a multi-meter, I've tested the XLRs and I'm not getting any crossed wires. This makes me think I need to build new XLRs. They are very short runs, maybe 12 inches? I've got the gain knob on the 887 down to a 1 and still hear some crackle. Do I need to put the DAC back into pre-amp mode and turn the volume down a bit? I've seen several other folks on this thread mention they have the same setup. Are they hearing this crackle? What should be my next step? Thanks!

I think you need to spend some time trouble shooting. Start by only using a simple setup with cables you didn't build and try to reproduce the problem. Avoid duplicate analog connections (no RCA and XLR at the same time). If you can't reproduce your issue, change one thing and test again. Eventually you will be able to isolate the issue.

 

[joltman]

I think you need to spend some time trouble shooting. Start by only using a simple setup with cables you didn't build and try to reproduce the problem. Avoid duplicate analog connections (no RCA and XLR at the same time). If you can't reproduce your issue, change one thing and test again. Eventually you will be able to isolate the issue.

I've been able to isolate this to the XLR cables. With the pre-built RCA cables and using my custom 4pin XLR headphone cable, I'm not able to reproduce the issue. The the XLR cables and the stock Sennheiser single ended cable, I can reproduce the issue. When I originally had the gain at 3 (highest) I heard lots of this crackling. As I turned the gain down to 1, I heard less, but it's still slightly there. As I said, I'm curious what others with these three components are doing/hearing. I suppose I need to put it back into PRE mode and turn down the volume a couple notches.

 

[EchoChamber]

I've been able to isolate this to the XLR cables. With the pre-built RCA cables and using my custom 4pin XLR headphone cable, I'm not able to reproduce the issue. The the XLR cables and the stock Sennheiser single ended cable, I can reproduce the issue. When I originally had the gain at 3 (highest) I heard lots of this crackling. As I turned the gain down to 1, I heard less, but it's still slightly there. As I said, I'm curious what others with these three components are doing/hearing. I suppose I need to put it back into PRE mode and turn down the volume a couple notches.

I never had a single noise issue with my D90. It could be one of the units analog balanced circuit, might not be related to cables at all. But I'd still inspect all XLR terminations with a magnifying glass. You might have a loose strand somewhere that's creating a short or a cold solder joint. I'd also re-melt all the joints on the cables you built to make sure (don't add any extra solder).

For visual reference, this is how my solder joints looked on the mini 4 pin connector for the balanced headphone cable I built for my BD DT 177X:

 

[joltman]

I never had a single noise issue with my D90. It could be one of the units analog balanced circuit, might not be related to cables at all. But I'd still inspect all your XLR terminations with a magnifying glass. You might have a loose strand somewhere that's creating a short or a cold solder joint. I'd also re-melt all the joints on the cables you built to make sure (don't add any extra solder).

I did tin the wire ends as well as the cups on the XLRs. I could also purchase more Neutrik connectors and try making another set of cables. Good practice too. I was wondering how everyone isn't hearing this same issue. Maybe my soldering sucks.