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Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

Nicolaas

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You want to know the max spec, what the device is capable of and it directly correlates to how it will perform at -20, -30 etc. Who's to say how loud people choose to listen at, 4Vrms is a constant that can be agreed upon. Amir even reduces DAC's to 4Vrms that output higher than that to keep the constant.

These days digital attenuation is handled by the DAC chip itself and thus hard to screw up, 99% are done with 32bit precision and not worth worrying about.
Indeed hard to screw up, but maybe it is...
 

Tokyo_John

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With digital attenuation noise is constant, so a reduction of signal decreases SINAD.

I can see noise being constant (assuming that dither noise is negligible, via noise-shaping, etc.). The SINAD floor includes both noise and harmonic distortion, so it is generally a question of THD as well, not just noise. Of course, if THD<<noise then this is irrelevant. This seems to be the case for the D90, according to Amir’s measurements. (-130dB THD compared to -120dB SINAD).

Which is why when people claim all you need is ~85dB because anything better is inaudible they are missing the point. Its not perfectly linear but lets say its close enough to pretend it is. When you start at 120dB at 4Vrms, and turn the volume down to -30db on the DAC, you still have 90dB SINAD, above audibility, But if you DAC started at 100dB, you then get into the realm of audible issues.

Understood, thanks for spelling it out more clearly. And -30dB is anyways a lot of attenuation...if one has to go lower regularly, then a preamp or less muscular power amp is called for.
 

EdW

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I can see noise being constant (assuming that dither noise is negligible, via noise-shaping, etc.). The SINAD floor includes both noise and harmonic distortion, so it is generally a question of THD as well, not just noise. Of course, if THD<<noise then this is irrelevant. This seems to be the case for the D90, according to Amir’s measurements. (-130dB THD compared to -120dB SINAD).



Understood, thanks for spelling it out more clearly. And -30dB is anyways a lot of attenuation...if one has to go lower regularly, then a preamp or less muscular power amp is called for.
What is really needed is a less sensitive power amp. You could consider inline fixed attenuators between the DAC O/P and the amp I/P if you don’t wish to replace a perfectly good but rather sensitive power amp.
 

sq225917

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I wonder about the point of a dac that goes so loud you have run a pre after it to 'retain the dacs full snr, only to lower it by adding the pre. I'd be much happier if they managed the mega specs at 2v output level then I could use the dac volume control at near full tilt rather than -30 with my current amps.
 

burns.simon

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Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

I am looking to connect a Singxer SU-2 via I2S to the D90 - could anyone kindly let me know the correct dip switch settings for the Singxer?
 

nimar

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Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

I am looking to connect a Singxer SU-2 via I2S to the D90 - could anyone kindly let me know the correct dip switch settings for the Singxer?
Based on your previous posts, and this one I have to assume you are either a troll (a very polite one granted), and or on the wrong forum. Sell the Singxer and donate the money to charity, you don't need it.
 

burns.simon

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Based on your previous posts, and this one I have to assume you are either a troll (a very polite one granted), and or on the wrong forum. Sell the Singxer and donate the money to charity, you don't need it.

What an incredibly odd thing to post. I won't however be going through your posting history and making any assumptions about you, wouldn't want to be impolite...
 

nimar

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What an incredibly odd thing to post. I won't however be going through your posting history and making any assumptions about you, wouldn't want to be impolite...

Didn't mean to offend, I simply observed that two of three messages you posted thus far were both about what would be deemed audio foolery products. Things that are entirely unnecessary. It helps that you had only posted so few, otherwise I wouldn't have actually looked. It's been a long day, and I suppose my bullshit detector is on high and misfired.

I did say you were very polite!

Back on track, why did you buy the Singxer? Why do you think its necessary to use with the D90?
 

burns.simon

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Didn't mean to offend, I simply observed that two of three messages you posted thus far were both about what would be deemed audio foolery products. Things that are entirely unnecessary. It helps that you had only posted so few, otherwise I wouldn't have actually looked. It's been a long day, and I suppose my bullshit detector is on high and misfired.

I did say you were very polite!

Back on track, why did you buy the Singxer? Why do you think its necessary to use with the D90?

Hello again, no offence taken, however in your to replies to my post about some settings you've used both "troll" and "foolery".

If you're unable to help with the question, no problem, but maybe let's just leave it at that?
 

yodog

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So back the relevant topic...

If my power amplifier is spec’d for full power at 0.775v, and my amp also has the “gain knobs” with 20 clicks of adjustment. What would be optimal to set my power amp if my DAC outputs max 4vrms and if it outputs Max 2vrms?

and would the 2vrms just be -6db (I assume 6 clicks lower) on the power amp adjustment side?
 

Tokyo_John

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I wonder about the point of a dac that goes so loud you have run a pre after it to 'retain the dacs full snr, only to lower it by adding the pre. I'd be much happier if they managed the mega specs at 2v output level then I could use the dac volume control at near full tilt rather than -30 with my current amps.

Yes, this way they can sell a DAC and Pre instead of just a DAC...makes perfect business sense.

I suppose that it might eventually make better sense for them to develop an integrated DAC+fully capable preamp as a perfectly paired unit, and then a power amp as a separate. Source+pre integration could be designed to take care of the full transition of a signal from bits to a power amp-ready analog signal. Any D->A process that introduces artifacts can be dealt with by analog sections of the preamp...for example, low-pass the noise-shaping induced ultra-sonics away instead of sending them along to the power amp and speakers (which may stress these components over time, and there is always a chance for affecting audible frequencies).

If my power amplifier is spec’d for full power at 0.775v, and my amp also has the “gain knobs” with 20 clicks of adjustment. What would be optimal to set my power amp if my DAC outputs max 4vrms and if it outputs Max 2vrms?

and would the 2vrms just be -6db (I assume 6 clicks lower) on the power amp adjustment side?

The arithmetic seems fine to me.
 
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incursore61

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Hello, since I installed on my imac Big Sur many kernel panics happen to me and I find the mac restarted, he wanted to know if it happens to any of you because the Topping is the only device connected and I fear it may be because of it. (if I unplug it, nothing happens anymore)
 

maverik_77

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At ten feet the D90 only responds when I point the remote accurately. So it is not very responsive indeed. After 1 year I am kind of used to it....
I too have same issue. I do have a harmony sensor next to it and still does not respond some times.
There is a design flaw on the D90 remore sensor positioning. It is on the right side of the display with around 15 percent on the right blocked plus sits deep. So if your dac sits on your right, chances of it working is high. If on the left, you are out of luck. Looks like they gave the display and sensor to some junior engineer to just get it working and called it enough.
 

Tokyo_John

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I too have same issue. I do have a harmony sensor next to it and still does not respond some times.
There is a design flaw on the D90 remore sensor positioning. It is on the right side of the display with around 15 percent on the right blocked plus sits deep. So if your dac sits on your right, chances of it working is high. If on the left, you are out of luck. Looks like they gave the display and sensor to some junior engineer to just get it working and called it enough.

Yep, I have mine on the left, as well. It is a pain.

Has anyone tried using a remote control extender/repeater? Or maybe an IR mirror that can be placed on the left side of the sensor window?

Another thing that has grown annoying over time is the insane speed of the press&hold volume adjustment...WAY too fast. It seem to go from 0 to -99dB in under a second.
 

Nicolaas

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I too have same issue. I do have a harmony sensor next to it and still does not respond some times.
There is a design flaw on the D90 remore sensor positioning. It is on the right side of the display with around 15 percent on the right blocked plus sits deep. So if your dac sits on your right, chances of it working is high. If on the left, you are out of luck. Looks like they gave the display and sensor to some junior engineer to just get it working and called it enough.
Thanks for sharing. This helps me for choosing the right angle! Zapping with my left hand is quite successful now..
 
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boblo

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Hello, I'm a very happy D90 MQA owner, but I would like to know how to find out the current firmware version of the device. There is a firmware update V1.24 and I don't know if I need to update my unit. Anyone?

And a petition to @JohnYang1997 :
I would like to have the automatic display turn off feature new in D70s to protect the OLED screen against burn-in. Could you pass this request on to the engineering team? I'm pretty sure this is possible by releasing a new firmware update, since this feature is not hardware related.

Thanks
 
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Racheski

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Hello, I'm a very happy D90 MQA owner, but I would like to know how to find out the current firmware version of the device. There is a firmware update V1.24 and I don't know if I need to update my unit. Anyone?

And a petition to @JohnYang1997 :
I would like to have the automatic display turn off feature new in D70s to protect the OLED screen against burn-in. Could you pass this request on to the engineering team? I'm pretty sure this is possible by releasing a new firmware update, since this feature is not hardware related.

Thanks
You can download from here
https://www.tpdz.net/download
 

hmscott

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Thanks for the link, but I already knew how to find firmware updates. I wonder how to know the current firmware version of my device, since the hidden menu does not display any software version.
You can find it from the Topping driver, right click on the system tray icon, select Show, go to the Info tab:
1617069422168.png
 

FrankBRC2

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Hi everyone,
I recently bought the D90 + A90 and I am listening to a lot of annoying crackling and popping sound. It doesn't matter the player, youtube, gamers. In such cases they are random. But when I move the windows volume bar, it’s constant. I recorded a video to show you.
My setup is simple: PC ---- USB ---- D90-- XLR --- A90 (or without the A90) ---- XLR ---- Yamaha HS8 (or KRK rokit 8) Updated drivers Topping from the official site.
I tried with RCA cables I tried with other USB cables (I only have simple cables)
Tried with all the usb ports Only DAC mode or PRE
I decided to enable the onboard sound to test the optical input of the D90. In that case the crackling and popping noises disappear.
Everything is grounded. I never had any problems with my Focusrite USB audio interfaces.
I ordered a usb cable from Amazon, which claims to be 4N copper, I don't know if this has any real benefits.
Normally, I would have returned. But I bought it from Aliexpress and I live in Brazil (the country where people are dying like flies). This makes it very complicated. The cable I ordered from Amazon cost more than twice as much in fees.
So, any tips? Thanks.
Video:
 
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