Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

[Rja4000]

Max output defaulted to 5 volts so I used -1.5 dB of attenuation to get it down to nominal 4 volts:

@amirm
There is a 4V mode in the menu.
That's how I measured (which of course doesn't explain the academic difference in our figures)

 

[DLS79]

Ok got it, but all these sources have already easy and generally probably better EQ possibilities.

Some people (myself included) want as few things as possible running on our computers, because we use them to perform very computationally expensive tasks.

Others want to be able to switch between their phone, tablet, computer, or some other usb devise and not have to constantly sync settings between every single devise.

 

[Tell]

Yet another overly perfect DAC. It's time for Topping to make them cheaper, not even better in an even more inaudible way. But I guess it's a good way of marketing stuff ;\
Also that PEQ is for both channels together and only the USB-input, so it's a bit limited in it's use, but I guess it's a good start at least!

 

[Bob101]

This thing is tiny and the display must be almost microscopic. I estimate the whole unit is about 5.5" wide and the active part of the display must be barely 1 inch wide!

Topping don't seem to specify the actual size or the weight in their specifications/website unless I missed it.

I had the first version of this DAC, with identical form factor. The screen really is very small. It's very much a desktop device. The joystick works well, but is too small to be practical. Sound was good, but at the time I kept my E50 and sent it back. A bit of an oddball DAC in the Topping line-up. I own the E70pro for the imo great menu, but now I wish it had PEQ...

 

[JamesYeomans]

Ok got it, but all these sources have already easy and generally probably better EQ possibilities.

Not iOS/iPadOS sources

 

[anphex]

God, I love progress.

But is the EQ directly written into the DSP or is it just a software EQ?
If it's just software, it's basically eAPO with extra steps.

 

[Sengin]

You can store multiple PEQ presets on the D50 III, and they can be used without Topping Tune running in the background.

That way, you can for example configure the PEQ on a Windows PC, then use it on a Mac.

Awesome. Now I just need the ability to change it with one key press and it's perfect for my use (headphones and speakers with a one-key trigger to Peace to change the EQ). Whether that's a physical button on the DAC for each PEQ, a command-line utility I can set up a shortcut for, or a command-line option to Topping Tune that will apply a PEQ and then exit, doesn't matter to me.

 

[johny_2000]

It both reads and exports .csv files. I don't remember if REW's generic export is like this but if not, it is not hard to make it so. But again, their focus is headphone equalization, not room.

On the cost, it would have been that without EQ.

Essentially, the necessary equalization can be done manually without purchasing a premium package.

 

[Sokel]

God, I love progress.

But is the EQ directly written into the DSP or is it just a software EQ?
If it's just software, it's basically eAPO with extra steps.

You configure it with the app and then store it in the device (5 configurations) .

 

[martijn86]

The app, called Topping Tune, even has nice features like overlaying a target curve. Focus is on headphone use though

I was struggling to see why you'd set a target curve as an EQ instead of a filter that brings your output device closer to that target. But then I saw that you can load in your own source frequency response a la AutoEQ or CrinGraph. That's pretty flipping sweet. I hope that this pushes more manufacturers to invest in good software to accompany their already transparent DAC's.

A massive, massive request to manufacturers (ahum.. cough.. @JSmith); Would you consider to open source your software and let the community contribute, report issues and fork the firmware all together? You just need to take one look at the activity around IEM measurements, squig.link, AutoEQ, CrinGraph and ofcourse community forums like this and ErinsAudioCorner to see that there are many enthousiasts willing to build an awesome listening experience together. I see potential.

 

[Jas0_0]

This is excellent - multi-band PEQ in a cost-effective DAC is something I’ve wanted for years. Let’s hope per-channel implementation follows quickly.

What are limits/gradations for Q, frequency, and gain?

 

[amirm]

Is EQ 10 bands per channel or mono only?

It applies to both channels. I would think it is not hard to split them so hopefully this can come in the future. In their focus on headphones, they didn't need to do this.

 

[amirm]

What are limits/gradations for Q, frequency, and gain?

I didn't see any limitations as I played with them. Values are fractional so you can put what you want in there.

 

[splitting_ears]

I'd be curious to see if there is any hi-frequency cramping (or Nyquist warping) in the PEQ.

In any case, it's certainly a step in the right direction for Topping. I hope other manufacturers will follow suit.

 

[oscar_dziki]

@amirm Why didn't you measure linearity/response with eq on? This seems to me very strange. We don't know how EQ works.

 

[amirm]

@amirm Why didn't you measure linearity/response with eq on? This seems to me very strange. We don't know how EQ works.

Linearity test works at one very narrow frequency (200 Hz). It doesn't matter what else to do to the rest of the response. I showed you how well EQ works with the dashboard FFT.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Is this the time to point out, in case we’d forgotten, that @amirm has already tested a DAC that measures as transparent, includes PEQ, costs €10 less than this, and comes with a superb streamer?

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

audiosciencereview.com

Currently only 4-band PEQ, but 10-band is on the way, and room correction is in beta as we speak.

Unfortunately no USB in, but there’s optical.

 

[Robbo99999]

@amirm , I noticed that the use of EQ increases the noise in a random way, as in sometimes there's additional measured noise & sometimes not (in terms of over time). As you mentioned the measured noise increases are not audible, but I'm wondering if the noise increases may get significantly worse when linking together a number of fairly complicated & overlapping EQ filters (which is what you do in headphone EQ)? It seems to me that the implementation of the filters in the device is not 100% optimised then if it's creating "random noise". I would suppose that software implementations of Parametric Filters like Roon / Neutron Player / Equaliser APO may currently have an advantage over Toppings current implementation as I'm assuming those software implementations wouldn't be injecting additional noise.

My take on the review: it's great to see Topping getting into the EQ game! I'd like to see per channel EQ options as that's even useful for headphone owners, albeit only if they've measured their headphone, because then you can integrate a channel matching EQ to balance each driver "perfectly" throughout the frequency range.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Is this the time to point out, in case we’d forgotten, that @amirm has already tested a DAC that measures as transparent, includes PEQ, costs €10 less than this, and comes with a superb streamer?

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

audiosciencereview.com

Currently only 4-band PEQ, but 10-band is on the way, and room correction is in beta as we speak.

Unfortunately no USB in, but there’s optical and coax.

I believe the coaxial jack on the WiiM Pro Plus is only an output. Otherwise, I agree. The WiiM Pro Plus is attractive because its' output has measured as nearly as transparent with parametric EQ that can be applied to ALL the inputs.

Is this the time to point out, in case we’d forgotten, that @amirm has already tested a DAC that measures as transparent, includes PEQ, costs €10 less than this, and comes with a superb streamer?

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

audiosciencereview.com

Currently only 4-band PEQ, but 10-band is on the way, and room correction is in beta as we speak.

Unfortunately no USB in, but there’s optical and coax.

edit : duplicate

 

[CedarX]

God, I love progress.

But is the EQ directly written into the DSP or is it just a software EQ?
If it's just software, it's basically eAPO with extra steps.

The current thinking is that the PEQ filters are processed by the XU316 USB bridge. It has 16x cores, with DSP capabilities (libraries…) but no specialized, dedicated, DSP core.

A Qudelix 5K does the same thing with its QCC5124 USB/BT chip. That chip has two specialized “Kalimba” DSP cores.

So, one could say that the EQ is directly written in the 5K “DSP”, whereas the D50-III is more a “firmware” type EQ, and Roon, Equalizer APO are pure “software” EQ… But, I’m not sure there is a clear differentiation or performance advantage (noise, artifacts, delay…) between these DSP implementations.