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Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

Regarding the fact that this D10b balanced version prevents USB ground loops, thus avoiding the need for eg ifi defender or topping h10/20, does this assume the sleeve/shield is lifted somewhere between the dac and your grounded powered speakers eg Genelec 8030c. So is it lifted in the TRS jack inside the unit? Or is this left as an exercise for the owner to lift the screen in the cables?

Or is the USB power ground somehow otherwise isolated from the TRS sleeve pin in the D10b?
 
Regarding the fact that this D10b balanced version prevents USB ground loops, thus avoiding the need for eg ifi defender or topping h10/20, does this assume the sleeve/shield is lifted somewhere between the dac and your grounded powered speakers eg Genelec 8030c. So is it lifted in the TRS jack inside the unit? Or is this left as an exercise for the owner to lift the screen in the cables?
Where did you get this idea from? I wouldn't assume that a DAC in this price class has any sort of galvanic isolation - the most you can ask for is proper construction in accordance with AES48-2005, i.e. no "Pin 1 Problem". As long as the same applies to the receiving end (which it presumably does in the case of Genelecs), the balanced connection will work 100% as intended and provide high level of common-mode rejection. Shield currents can flow merrily but will be irrelevant to the audio path.
 
Anyway to decrease the 4v out to lower value, for vintage amplifier use?
 
Anyway to decrease the 4v out to lower value, for vintage amplifier use?
You can buy plug in attenuation. One thing I would warn against is feeding single ended rca amp inputs from a D10b. Topping says don't do it. You can with some balanced gear, but not this particular Topping.
 
You can buy plug in attenuation. One thing I would warn against is feeding single ended rca amp inputs from a D10b. Topping says don't do it. You can with some balanced gear, but not this particular Topping.
Single ended? Tube amp? Newbies question?
 
Topping 10 vs 10s, is there a difference?
Yes, the 10S is rca output. 10B is TRS balanced. Many balanced output circuits can be connected to RCA inputs with adapters. However some type of balanced circuits will have high distortion used that way. This particularly Topping is one of those. The 10B should only be used with other balanced gear. The manual for the 10B warns you about this.

Sorry for confusion using the term single ended. Single ended refers to some tube amps. However, non-balanced connections are also called single ended. RCA is single ended because it has a ground connection and a connection varying in voltage referenced to ground. Balanced connections are differential. One connection is varying voltage. The other connection is an inverted copy of the same varying voltage. The difference between the two is what makes the signal passed on.

So if you have an older amp you wish to use with the 10B, and need reduced voltage, is that amp using RCA inputs or balanced inputs? If it is using RCA inputs you should not use it with a Topping 10B. If it is using TRS or XLR balanced it could be used with the Topping 10B.
 
So rca from topping to my old receiver rca is a no go?

I have a 10s with analogue rca out for analogue sound but to loud

My wiim vould be lower to 200 mvrms in the audio setting
 
So rca from topping to my old receiver rca is a no go?

I have a 10s with analogue rca out for analogue sound but to loud

My wiim vould be lower to 200 mvrms in the audio setting
No, no. If you have the 10S, then RCA to RCA is fine. You posted this in the D10 Balanced thread so I thought that is what you had.

If your Wiim has lower output that would work. You can also use a Harrison Labs attenuator between the Topping and Receiver to lower the output level. I think they have become too expensive. You also could make your own if you know how. If the Wiim works better then I'd just use that.

 
Sorry, xlr newbies mistake, understand better now!

I had the shanking EH3, good sound not user friendly replace with topping but to loud

Thanks, attenuator, don’t change the sound?

Best regards
 
You should be able to change D10s volume from the PC after installing Topping's drivers, have you tried that?

Otherwise you may have gone a bit too low-end with this model, and another DAC with a more easily accessible volume control would be preferred (either with a knob or at least on a remote). An E30 II (lite) would do.

Also, what is your playback chain on the computer? If you're playing loudness war era CDs with no Replaygain and no nothing I'm in no way surprised. I remember people cursing over 15 years ago due to having their integrated amp's volume knob stuck at a super low setting with poor channel balance all the time, and that was with traditional CD players.
 
You should be able to change D10s volume from the PC after installing Topping's drivers, have you tried that?

Otherwise you may have gone a bit too low-end with this model, and another DAC with a more easily accessible volume control would be preferred (either with a knob or at least on a remote). An E30 II (lite) would do.
Respectfully... the issue is not that the D10S / D10B is "too low end" of a DAC, but rather it may be a DAC with the wrong feature set for their use case.

Why does that distinction matter? Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a balanced DAC that does NOT include a volume knob??? :cool: The prevailing perception that a DAC without a volume knob is inferior (vs. simply being a DAC with an intentional minimalistic design) exacerbates that challenge.
 
You should be able to change D10s volume from the PC after installing Topping's drivers, have you tried that?

Otherwise you may have gone a bit too low-end with this model, and another DAC with a more easily accessible volume control would be preferred (either with a knob or at least on a remote). An E30 II (lite) would do.

Also, what is your playback chain on the computer? If you're playing loudness war era CDs with no Replaygain and no nothing I'm in no way surprised. I remember people cursing over 15 years ago due to having their integrated amp's volume knob stuck at a super low setting with poor channel balance all the time, and that was with traditional CD players.
Normally, i discard loudness CD, the worst îve heard was the Rolling stones live in bar in toronto, and all remaster are loudness of loudness (all that for micro earbud, there not good, they require loudness to work) but

Replay gain, please explain, i always discard it, since i listen mostly my cd ripping from my nas on my server

Also, i bypass windows volume and data goes direct to topping

I have same result with computer or transport!

Replay gain, did it help using it?

Topping driver are they asio?

I will resume building a mac server (mini) for music, since you have access midi setup!

Please no knob or no volume, that was my goal, but modern stuff with 4v out, is nonsence and i know micro V, involve precision and 4v is a way to discard and made it affordable/cheap (to minimal effort)!

Attenuator, seems to create bottle sound, some old amplifier have ceramic/aux entry so less V out is better, like the wiim

Thanks for helping!
 
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The D10 does have an ASIO driver from Topping.

The D10S only has 2 volt output. There was a D10 prior to the D10S and D10B I think it was 4 volts.

I don't know what software you use for playing music, but if it can do ASIO that bypasses all Windows controls though that software may have its own volume control. As the D10 in all of its versions has very low noise and good dynamic range reducing volume would not adversely effect sound quality. Not as much as will happen if you are over-driving the input to your receiver. Using a Mac will not fix this as you will still need to reduce volume in software.

One way or another you'll need to reduce volume from the DAC output. So sticking to the purity of direct connection does not help if it causes problems that are larger elsewhere.

Another solution would be a passive volume control between DAC and receiver input. Or even an active one like the JDS Atom+ headphone amp preamp. On low gain it will take up to 8 volts input. You then reduce the output level to your liking with the volume knob using it to feed your receiver.

I don't know which Wiim you have. I think it too may have too much output even if less than the D10 by 6 db.
 
Ok thanks, so a passive preamp will help, hook all my gear to it, except Tt and the use it to listen music.

I was experiencing listening fatigue, but i was decreasing and losing quality (the 6db thing)

Just ordered passive preamp, will be helpfull swaping amp and tube amp for listening! Thanks
 
Ok thanks, so a passive preamp will help, hook all my gear to it, except Tt and the use it to listen music.

I was experiencing listening fatigue, but i was decreasing and losing quality (the 6db thing)

Just ordered passive preamp, will be helpfull swaping amp and tube amp for listening! Thanks
So I'm a bit lost. Maybe a detailed description of your system connection would help. I did not know you had a tube amp or where it fits.

The passive preamp could go between the Topping D10 and your receiver. Use the D10 at max volume and with the passive between your D10 and receiver input, you lower the level before feeding it into your receiver. Then use your receiver as normal for volume control.
 
In fact,

Windows64pro, bypass (trying to bypass windows mixer)
+/to usb
+/ to topping 10s
+/ to receiver
+/to than to: fullrange tangbang (speaker A); to sub (speaker B)

And i have multiple receiver or integrated amp and swap those time to time

But some listening fatigue and some annoying distorsion very light but that made me close it after an hour

No replay gain is used (investigating what it does, not sure, please help)
Just ordered and received passive preamp for easy swapping since source is ok

I have try these DAC: audioquest blue and black; shanling; schiit; teac d700 (should not sell that one); micromega; fiio, etc

So far topping is purest, but to loud a bit…

But it’s opamp output (worst invention those op)

Btw, just ordered an wiim Ultra, maybe with voltage managing it will help
 
So yes use the passive between the D10 and receiver.

Replay gain "normalizes" level of playback for different songs. For example you have one track that is very loud and you have to turn down volume. You have a second track that is very soft and you have raise volume. You have other tracks in between those two extremes. Replay gain looks at the average level prior to playing a track and adjusts it. This way you can set volume and change it very little if any with everything being matched to play back at a similar loudness. So if you want purity of the signal this is not for you. For casual listening it can be nice to use.
 
So yes use the passive between the D10 and receiver.

Replay gain "normalizes" level of playback for different songs. For example you have one track that is very loud and you have to turn down volume. You have a second track that is very soft and you have raise volume. You have other tracks in between those two extremes. Replay gain looks at the average level prior to playing a track and adjusts it. This way you can set volume and change it very little if any with everything being matched to play back at a similar loudness. So if you want purity of the signal this is not for you. For casual listening it can be nice to use.
Thanks, I will use replay gain in the car, there it would help and if i want earloss with tinytbitsy earplugphone!
 
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