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Topping A90 Headphone Amplifier Review

JohnYang1997

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@JohnYang1997 can I ask why the choice of going with TPA6120 instead of an even better amp?
There are simply no better all round amps. OPA564 has only one channel, is slow, runs hotter, much slower, only +-12V operation and still much more expensive. Opa564 will work in some cases(like with class H supply). it's just that I have designed the circuit using 6120 for very long time it's solid and stable. There's also another THS chip I like and we will use it on A50s.
 

JohnYang1997

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I believe the pot is better than you think it is. Both Wolf and Amir's review show above average tracking.
The mean of the pots we've tested are below -50dB. The one Wolf tested was even more lucky. In combination of the low gain -9.5dB you can easily get -60dB out of most units. And the difference between -40db and -50db is honestly very little in the knob position. We could achieve -70dB even but turned out to be not so meaningful.
 

JohnYang1997

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So, any chance of a run-down on the design topology described here? I can sort of guess what is being done, especially after seeing the 6120's in the picture. But if you are going to coin terms like NFCA and UHGF you owe it to the rest of the geeks to give us something with a bit more meat on it. :)
It's simple in the name. It's nothing vague like AAA which is completely confusing.
NFCA(nested feedback composite amplifier) is as direct as it can get. Ultra high gain feedback is also straightforward, the total loop gain is very high. Current voltage hybrid feedback is also just as described, tpa6120 is CFA, 1612 is VFA. I can't just make a good performing module and not name it right?
 

boXem

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I noticed that as well. Some BAV99 or similar wouldn't have been that expensive...or maybe we are both blind.
The BAV99 would do the overstress protection, for the EMI, an RC or LC is needed. Issue is that the C degrades the CMRR, and the R increases the noise, so you need to find a trade-off between immunity and performance. No R and no C is an extreme trade-off :p, just wondering how the circuit would behave in harsh environments if these are really omitted.
 

filo97s

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There are simply no better all round amps. OPA564 has only one channel, is slow, runs hotter, much slower, only +-12V operation and still much more expensive. Opa564 will work in some cases(like with class H supply). it's just that I have designed the circuit using 6120 for very long time it's solid and stable. There's also another THS chip I like and we will use it on A50s.
What about a solution consisting of, for example, OPA1656 + LME49600? The former should be the TI flagship opamp with an even lower THD figure, the latter a current buffer with better slew rate and THD...
 

kn0ppers

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The TPA6120A2s is just really fast, really cheap (in comparison), has really good distortion by itself and high output current.

I was looking at doing a Headamp with ADA4870, but it's slower and substantially more expensive, also only has one channel. The only advantage I see is the large thermal pad. There are quite a few other interesting DSL or Video Line drivers from TI and Analog besides the TPA6120A2/THS6012 that can/could be used in composite amplifiers, Walt Jung already did an implementation with the fairly old AD811 way back. Tom Christiansen also used one of this variety for his TCA HPA-1, another top performer.
 

kn0ppers

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What about a solution consisting of, for example, OPA1656 + LME49600? The former should be the TI flagship opamp with an even lower THD figure, the latter a current buffer with better slew rate and THD...

You can get one TPA6120A2 for less than one LME49600. And it has much higher output current. LME49600 is nice, but gets expensive if you want massive amounts of power (not that the 250mA it offers aren't plenty to destroy most headphones). My Neurochrome-HP1 has 2 Composite Output stages with OPA1611+LME49600 in parallel per channel. It's probably the best LME49600 implementation out there. I like it, but Tom discontinued it also for the reason of high BOM cost.
 

JohnYang1997

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The BAV99 would do the overstress protection, for the EMI, an RC or LC is needed. Issue is that the C degrades the CMRR, and the R increases the noise, so you need to find a trade-off between immunity and performance. No R and no C is an extreme trade-off :p, just wondering how the circuit would behave in harsh environments if these are really omitted.
The input impedance is low enough to take care of interference. ESD is built in opa1612. And we run at +-15V, so one really shouldn't put higher voltage in there. Amir's testing environment is known to be not so clean. It doesn't show in the measurements, it's not there. There will be scare cases it can be an issue but in such case I don't think a simple RC will do much if anything. You may need RCR for that and thus noise performance is largely hindered. So for majority of people it's a non issue.
 

JohnYang1997

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What about a solution consisting of, for example, OPA1656 + LME49600? The former should be the TI flagship opamp with an even lower THD figure, the latter a current buffer with better slew rate and THD...
LME49600 is nothing more than a 1 dollar discrete diamond buffer. It doesn't have any feedback on its own so the distortion by itself is horrendous. It only works in deep feedback situation. With tpa6120, you may only need extra 40dB of gain to clean it up but we got another extra 30-40dB for extremely low distortion. And it can supply over 1A per chip.
 

Matias

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slide potentiometer NO!
stepped attenuator YES!
make a plus version pls~:D
Or just attenuate some 6 to 12dB on software (digital volume) and use this pot in its most balanced range.
 

kn0ppers

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Yes I think you mentioned ealier you would be ready to make some tradeoffs for superior noise performance. I respect that. My preferences are a little different, but the environment most people use their equipment in is also more controlled than mine. I am always looking more from the view of pro audio and studio equipment, I am willing to give up some noise performance for better protection. Mainly because Douglas Self warned in his Small Signal book about some of the unexpected behaviours of what was supposed to be properly designed "pro equipment".;)
 

Labjr

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Hi John, Will Topping be making a balanced version the E30?
 

JohnYang1997

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The TPA6120A2s is just really fast, really cheap (in comparison), has really good distortion by itself and high output current.

I was looking at doing a Headamp with ADA4870, but it's slower and substantially more expensive, also only has one channel. The only advantage I see is the large thermal pad. There are quite a few other interesting DSL or Video Line drivers from TI and Analog besides the TPA6120A2/THS6012 that can/could be used in composite amplifiers, Walt Jung already did an implementation with the fairly old AD811 way back. Tom Christiansen also used one of this variety for his TCA HPA-1, another top performer.
Well. I have looked into it last year the same time I was working on tpa6120. Only appealing thing TO ME is the higher voltage supply and voltage swing. I got two samples but the board I made for that didn't work. Damn that thing is expensive. :facepalm:
 

kn0ppers

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Well. I have looked into it last year the same time I was working on tpa6120. Only appealing thing TO ME is the higher voltage supply and voltage swing. I got two samples but the board I made for that didn't work. Damn that thing is expensive. :facepalm:

Yeah I got something stable in SPICE as well, but how the phase margin would look on a real PCB I don't know. And I don't have a GHz Bandwidth scope to monitor a step response.. :facepalm:

Oh yeah totally forgot about the voltage swing. That was the second reason.
 
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